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主题:【原创】方舟子,还有司马南 -- 淡山客

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家园 1,反驳已经够多了,你没有看到过罢了

2,这里仅仅讨论新语丝这个媒体的倾向性,作为一家媒体应该尽可能的保持中立,你认为呢?

3,肖传国获科技部一等奖的证书什么也有,武汉中级人民法院的判决书也在调查了诸多证据以后肯定了肖传国,你认为是记者的报道更有公信力,还是科技部获奖证书以及法院判决书更有公信力,如果连前者更有公信力的证明都没有用,找媒体有用吗?

4,我这里仅仅反驳方舟子们说肖氏手术没有一例成功的说法,当然了你可以说李天玉的手术的成功是因为瞎猫撞到死老鼠,但是瞎猫撞到死老鼠,也是有一例成功是吧?

5,NIH撤销实验不意味着NIH不认可肖氏手术,你可以去找那个实验项目的NIH的官方介绍,最后两段明确的提到了此前的实验非常的理想---promising,而最近的目标是扩展研究范围,更精确,更广泛,更有理论,并且要求其他机构来一起研究。

以下这个链接是方舟子团伙得意洋洋的以为驳倒了肖传国的一篇科学网博文,我前一段时间才看到,然后我对博主进行反驳,然后博主至少已经不再反驳我对她的反驳了

外链出处

Our preliminary data are very promising, and in 9 subjects at 12 months post procedure, 7/9 subjects could void either voluntarily or by stimulating the new reflex mechanism.

This current project aims to expand upon our pilot experience to conduct a larger and more rigorous study to establish the safety and effectiveness of the proposed somatic-autonomic reflex pathway procedure in gaining bladder and bowel control in patients with spina bifida. We will also collaborate with and train investigators at another site(s) to determine the training needed to achieve similar safety and effectiveness outcomes, and evaluate possible methods to stimulate the new reflex to improve bladder emptying. Achieving the aims outlined in this multicenter proposal will help firmly establish the procedure as safe and effective, and revolutionize the treatment of bladder and bowel dysfunction in patients with spina bifida in the US.

以上来自被撤销的实验项目NCT01096459的官方介绍,

外链出处

你认为以上介绍是肯定肖氏手术还是否定肖氏手术呢?

以下是NIH网站关于在2011年开始由WILLIAM BEAUMONT HOSPITAL RESEARCH INST资助的项目5R01DK084034-03的官方描述的摘要

Dr. Xiao developed and is performing a novel procedure in China that connects a functioning, healthy lumbar spinal nerve root to the sacral nerve that controls the bladder. The end result is the creation of a new reflex where the bladder can be emptied by scratching or stimulating the skin supplied by that spinal nerve root. He has reported that in 92 SCI patients, 88% regained bladder control within one year after the nerve rerouting surgery and in 110 children with spina bifida, reported success in 87% at one year. However, in China rigorous follow up is challenging, therefore much is still unknown about the neurorecovery post surgery, complications and results occurring in the first year in particular, and the potential role that central nervous system remodeling may play in achieving successful outcomes. At Beaumont, a pilot study is underway on 9 spina bifida subjects, however no other center in the US is currently studying this technique. Our preliminary data are very promising, and with 9 subjects now 12 months post procedure, 7/9 subjects are voiding either voluntarily or by stimulating the new reflex mechanism. This project aims to expand upon our pilot experience to conduct a larger and more rigorous study to establish the safety and effectiveness of the proposed somatic-autonomic reflex pathway procedure in gaining bladder and bowel control in patients with spina bifida. Additionally, we will systemically evaluate and optimize frequency and location for excitation of the new somatic-autonomic reflex arc to a) gain more insight into the neurorecovery associated with nerve rerouting, and b) scientifically and systematically determine the ideal stimulation parameters to achieve best voiding results and make the somatic-autonomic reflex pathway rerouting most useful for the patients. Achieving the aims outlined in this proposal will help firmly establish the procedure as safe and effective, and revolutionize the treatment of bladder and bowel dysfunction in patients with spina bifida.

在这个介绍中,提到了肖传国在中国的数据,也提到了昧国人自己做的手术,在手术一年以后7/9的有效,他们关注的是肖氏手术对中枢神经系统会产生什么影响,然后还能够有什么别的效果,通过这个实验,让肖氏手术更安全更有效率,从而达到一个治疗的革命(revolutionize)

外链出处

注意这个项目还在进行中

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