- == 系统问题，暂停聊天功能。==
- 【征集】西西河的经济学，及清流措施，需要主动参与者，『稷下学宫』新认证方式，24年网站打算和努力目标
主题：【原创】我来发个系列，说说社保的问题 -- puma2011
家园 作者获得通宝一枚 送花成功。有效送花赞扬。
家园 on 说实话我很奇怪中国政府既然建立了个人帐户，为什么还 说实话我很奇怪中国政府既然建立了个人帐户，为什么还要自己画蛇添足去管理？
--nothing surprising.
--It is called nominal pension account system: you contributed money, gov. accrues and nominally recognizes a percentage of growth(based on historical average), but NO MONEY IS REALLY LEFT FOR YOU TO WITHDRAW AT ANY TIMe, unlike American IRA, 401k and Roth IRA (in Canada, they are RRSP, company defined contribution pension, TSFA) Actually, in China, the provincial-level pension system is a big black hole and ticking bomb.
With China's current political infrastructure and corruption, any new money flowing into this system will be squandered into free food/drink for local officials as well as Swiss account secret deposits.
There is nothing 奇怪: you need to read much more materials to prepare this series. It is a difficult topic, since there are Anglo system, as well as continental European system. Europeans have much longer history on SS than the North Americans. You should have focused on Europe rather than America.
BTW, the defined benefits system 企业的养老金：pension. 这个东西就是以前我国国企的退休金--yes, socialism nations and capitalism nations learned from each other. I think Ford is one of the earliest companies that implemented the defined benefits system in States, around late 1920s.
For all American and Canadian publicly traded firms, those pension liabilities were unfunded liabilities (just like in China) until 1960s. After a heated debate over almost 10 years, auditors won the game and finally pushed through the new pension accounting standards to force all publicly traded companies to recognize and disclose their pension underfunding situation.
通宝推：amazon,家园 绝大部分是空账，所以有争取做实的一派 据说前几年最高做实到1/3，后来又空更多了
家园 thanks. will go back read more on this topic.
家园 宝推 parishg多谈谈美加的养老金系统吧。另外请教一下，现在这种人造低利率环境对养老金长期影响如何？是否会导致什么变化？
现在欧洲在推行养老金改革。不缺钱的英荷壳牌石油也迫于（政府？同行？）压力，从明年起对新入职的员工不再给予现行的丰厚养老金待遇。
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家园 low rate environment is very bad for the fund.
Low rate--> lower equity investment return-->more firm annual cost to contribute to the defined benefits plan--> less reported accounting profit for the company.
So it is perfectly normal for Shell/Exxon to do that: if I am the CEO, I will do it long time ago.
Defined contribution: for smart people who know finance, it is actually a better choice compared with defined benefits system.
家园 多谢 我也同意DC系统对于少部分懂得理财的人士来说比DB是更好的选择，但问题是90%也许甚至比例更高的普通人未必会如此，就像炒股人群“七亏二平一赢”似的。
另外有种说法是只有比较笨的人才会去Pension Fund工作，聪明人都跑到好的Investment Bank去了，所以Pension Fund永远不是投行的对手--这种说法可能刻薄了一些
家园 it is just not that easy to invest wisely. On this forum, 陈经bluffs a lot loudly, but his fund experienced huge loss last year.
家园 不要点名啦，当心吃砖头 I read his posts in pre-2008-crisis period. He encouraged so many posters here to invest heavily into the HK market and most funds lost 40%-50%.
I am not surprised to hear his loss in 2011 again.
You should read posts by "laozhong". He warned in 2006 and 2007 on the American credit crisis.
I specialized in credit derivatives, that's the reason why I foresaw the trouble in early 2007. But Laozhong warned in late 2006! He is smarter than me.
家园 这个系列要花 送花成功。有效送花赞扬。恭喜：你意外获得 8 铢钱。