主题：[转载]内贾德舌战拉里金，美国右派频频进广告做挡箭牌-1 -- 迪塘钱

　　金：你是否理解有关对伊朗核武器的担心？考虑到地区国家的所有敌对情况，你是否理解有关伊朗拥有核武器的担心？这可能会引发一些你可能从未启动的一些事情。

　　KING: Do you not understand the fears about nuclear -- nuclear weaponry in your country? With all the hostility in the region, don't you understand the fears over your having nuclear weapons? That could trigger something that you might not even start。

　　内：谁在担心？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Who is concerned?

　　金：世界在担心。

　　KING: The world is concerned。

　　内：谁是世界？谁代表了世界？美国？它的朋友？不，世界是一个非常大的地方。美国官员的错误在于他们视自己为世界，但他们并不是世界。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Who is the world? Who represents the world? The United States? Its friends? No, the world is a very big place. And what U.S. officials are wrong about is that they see themselves as the world but they are not。

　　金：好吧，以色列总理内塔尼亚胡最近参与我们的节目。他说，我引用他的话“人类面临的最大威胁是伊朗将获得核武器，人类，这就是世界。

　　如果以色列对持强烈的看法，你对他们不作出直接的保证，你是否担心他们可能会首先发起军事打击行动？

　　KING: All right. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu was a guest recently on our program and he said, quote, "The greatest threat facing humanity." Humanity. That's the world. "Is that Iran would acquire nuclear weapons."

　　If Israel feels that strongly and you don't directly assure them, don't you fear that they might do a first strike?

　　内：所以你认为，我们感到担心，我们应当对减轻内塔尼亚胡的恐慌和担心感到担心？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： So you think that we are concerned -- we should be concerned about allaying Mr. Netanyahu's fears and concerns?

　　金：是的。

　　KING: Yes。

　　内：我们为什么要为他作那样的事？他是谁？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Why should we be doing that for him? Who is he?

　　金：他是一个国家的元首

　　KING: He's the head of a country --

　　内：首先，他是谁？他是一个老练的杀人犯。世界上所有的独裁者曾谴责过其他人，他是独裁者中的一位。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Who is he in the first place, to begin with? He is a skilled killer. All dictators in the world have

condemned others, and he's one of many of them。

　　金：也许

　　KING: Maybe --

　　内：他应当为杀害巴勒斯坦人、封锁加沙而受到审判。对加沙的封锁违反了法律和联合国宪章。

　　他应当为杀害妇女和儿童而遭到审判，你想减轻他的恐惧和担心？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： He should be put on trial for killing Palestinians, for placing Gaza under siege, which is against the law and against the spirit of the charter of the United Nations。

　　He should be put on trial for killing women and children, and you want to allay his fears and concerns here?

　　金：我想减轻你的担心。

　　KING: I want to allay yours。

　　内：允许我向你问一个问题。美国媒体为何对减轻纳塔尼亚胡的担心和恐惧如此负责？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Allow me to ask a question from you. Why does U.S. media feel so responsible for allaying Mr. Netanyahu's concerns and fears?

　　金：因为

　　KING: Because --

　　内：为什么？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Why?

　　金：如果他将他的担心提升到另一个层次，对你发出威胁呢？你难道不担心他吗？你，伊朗？

　　KING: What if he took his concerns to the next step and threatened you? So shouldn't you be concerned about him? You, Iran?

　　内：所以你是在担心他可能会发动战争？有人想发动战争，他们在寻找借口，所以你对此感到担心。

　　我认为，控制像内塔尼亚胡这样的人和政权意图的方法就是停止支持他。美国政府应当停止使用美国纳税人的钱来支持他。

　　美国有三千万、四千万穷人，4百万人无家可归。美国为什么要花钱让内塔尼亚胡获得武器，用不同的借口中攻击黎巴嫩、威胁伊朗？这很可怕，非常可怕。

　　金：总统先生，所有这些问题看起来都集中在，他是一个独裁者，你是一个挑起事端的独裁者，如果你拥有核武器，他们害怕核武器，你将会遇到问题，这将给世界造成问题。

　　你是否会在这里称，你现在没有将来也不会有核武器？请简单一点。

　　KING: All of these problems, Mr. President, seem to center around -- we quibble, he's a dictator, you're a dictator who started -- if you have a nuclear weapon and they fear a nuclear weapon, you could have a problem that creates a problem for the world。

　　Would you say here now you do not and will not have nuclear weapons? Be simple。

　　内：我们的第一个问题是谁是你再次提及的世界？你的意思是内塔尼亚胡？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Our first question is who is the world again that you speak of? You mean Mr. Netanyahu?

　　金：不，如果所有人

　　KING: No. If anybody --

　　内：谁是世界？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Who's the world?

　　金：如果有人向其他人投下核弹，整个世界都将受到影响，你明白这一点。

　　KING: If anybody drops a nuclear bomb on anybody, the whole world is involved. You know that。

　　内：请允许我，请允许我，你知道，在民调中，海湾地区百分之八十八的受访者支持伊朗的核活动，所以，谁在担心？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Allow me, allow me here. You are aware that in polls, 88 percent of the people in the region support Iran's nuclear activities. So who's concerned?

　　金：什么样的活动？

　　KING: What activities?

　　内：这是第一个问题，这是伊朗的核活动，除了犹太复国主义政权和一些美国当局的担心之外，在海湾地区没有人表示对伊朗的核活动感到恐惧。

　　我们没有寻求核武，我们对此没有兴趣，我们认为核武器是没有用的。我们坚定地要求犹太复国主义政权和美国解除核武。

　　对世界构成威胁的是美国政府和犹太复国主义政权所拥有的核弹。如果他们认为发动针对伊朗的宣传就可以基本改变公众舆论，那么他们错了。

　　我们将在这一议题上持坚定的立场，我们将在所有国际组织中提出这一议题，我们将在核不扩散评估进程中讨论这一议题。核不扩散评估会议通过的会议要求犹太复国主义政权处理它的核武库。

　　美国政府也必须这样作以确保犹太复国主义政权的核武库被解除，因为那个政权是非法的好战国家。它已证明它对其神经没有足够的控制力。它的支持者美国也是如此，美国平白无故地就在伊拉克和阿富汗发动了战争。

　　犹太复国主义政府和美国没有掌握核武库的能力。这一点也适用于所有拥有核武器的国家。它们必须解除核武，因为核弹是世界上最糟糕最丑陋的武器。那些拥有核武器的国家必须解除核武。从今以后没有人再有权建造核武。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： This is the first question. It's Iran's nuclear activities. No one expresses fear about Iran's nuclear activities in the region except the Zionist regime and the fear of some American authorities。

　　We are not seeking the bomb. We have no interest in it. And we do not think that it is useful. We are standing firm over the issue that both the Zionist regime and the United States government should be disarmed。

　　The threat to the world are the bombs that the U.S. government and the Zionist regime have. If they think that by propagating against Iran that they can basically change their public opinion, they are wrong。

　　We will stand firm on this issue. We will pursue it in all international organizations. We will discuss in the NPT review process. The Zionist regime was required. And the document ratified by the NPT review conference to address its nuclear arsenal。

　　And so the U.S. government, too, must pursue this idea to ensure that the Zionist regime's nuclear arsenal is eliminated because this regime is an illegitimate war-waging country. It has also proved that it does not have sufficient control over its nerves. And not only that nor does its backer, the United States that gets into wars in Iraq and Afghanistan just over nothing。

　　And this government and the United States still does not have the

ability to hold nuclear arsenals. And the same argument holds true for all who possess nuclear bombs. They must all disarm. Because the nuclear bomb is the worst and ugliest form of weapon that there is. And those who have it must disarm. And nobody has the right from now on to build nuclear bombs。

　　金：包括

　　KING: Including --

　　内：所以你在这方面的立场很清楚，你必须明白这样的宣传是没有用的。我们没有核弹，那些拥有核弹的国家应当解除核武，而不是指责其他国家拥有或者想拥有核武。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： So our position's very clear on this. You must understand that this propaganda is useless. We don't have the nuclear bomb. Those who have it have to be disarmed, rather than accuse others of having it or wanting it。

　　金：我们是

　　KING: We are in -- we are --

　　内：所有的美国政府和安理会都非常清楚这一点。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： All the U.S. government knows very well as does the Security Council that --

　　金：你的回答太冗长了。

　　KING: You're being redundant。

　　内：伊朗没有核弹，它也不寻求核弹，但我们将持坚定的立场，以确保拥有核武的国家解除核武，它们必须解除核武。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Iran does not have a nuclear bomb and that it is not seeking one. But we will stand firm, stand firm, to make sure they will disarm. They must all disarm。

　　金：很显然，我们生活在一个恐惧的世界里，良心，你谈论过人权和内塔尼亚胡。伊朗的良心如何？学生，人权捍卫者？你是否应当在那一领域作出改善？伊朗是否有全面的人权？伊朗人是否有权发表自己的看法，举行示威活动？

　　KING: We're in a world of fear apparently. Conscience -- you talked about human rights and Mr. Netanyahu. How about conscience in your country? Students, human rights defenders? Don't you have to improve in the area? Aren't there -- are there full human rights in Iran? Does everyone in Iran have the right to speak out, to protest?

　　内：在世界任何地方，你都会看到那一性质的挑战。在美国也是这样，有必要在这方面采取更多措施。这里是否有全面的人权？我们得运用比较的方法。我不认为，在伊朗，会有一位在办公室工作了五十年的雇员因为发表他或她的看法而遭到解雇，但这样的事情发生在美国。一位有着很深厚工作背景的记者仅仅是因为发表了观点而被迫辞职。这样的事情绝对也永远不会在伊朗发生。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Everywhere in the world, you see challenges of that nature. In the United States, too, there is need for more on this front. Isn't there? So we have to have a comparative skill in our hands. I don't think, for example, in Iran, an employee would be fired after 50 years of serving in an office for expressing his opinion or her opinion. But this happened in your country. A reporter with a rich background was forced out of her work simply because she expressed an opinion. This never happened -- would never happen in Iran。

　　金：从未发生过？

　　KING: Never happen?

　　内：现在，在世界各地，我们都有这方面的问题，但这样的事情绝对不会在伊朗发生。虽然如此，我了解世界各地都有这方面的问题，包括美国在内。我们作好在一个论坛上坐下的准备，将我们所有的麻烦放在桌子上，就其进行讨论，一起解决这些问题。

　　我问你，美国有250万犯人，不是所有的犯人都是杀人犯、谋杀犯或者小偷，其他人是为何入狱的？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Now, everywhere in the world, we have problems. But this would never have happened in Iran. Having said that, I understand all over the world there are problem, including in the United States. And we are prepared to sit in a forum at a table, place all our troubles on the table and discuss it and resolve it together。

　　I asked you, you have over 2.5 million prisoners here. Not all of them are killers, murderers or thieves. Who are the rest?

　　金：你是在说我们有政治犯？

　　KING: Are you saying we have political prisoners?

　　内贾德：不，这不是我所暗示的，你可以告诉我，他们为何入狱？为什么？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： No, that's not what I'm suggesting. You can tell me that. Why are they in prison? Why?

　　金：我没有对每个案件进行过调查，毒品

　　KING: I haven't investigated every -- drugs --

　　内：他们都是小偷吗？他们都是小偷和强盗吗？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Are they all thieves? Are they all thieves and robbers?

　　金：严重的毒品问题

　　KING: Big drug problem。

　　内：你有这么多的与毒品相关的问题，250万人，百分之一，每100名美国人就有一人在监狱里。为什么？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： You have so many drug-related problem, 2.5 million people, one percent -- out of 100 people in the United States,one person is in prison. Why?

　　金：我们休息一会，我们将马上回来。

　　KING: Let me get a break and we'll come right back。

　　内：他们都是杀人犯？都是抢劫犯？他们都走私毒品？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Have they all killed? Have they all robbed? Have they all trafficked drugs?

　　金：我不知道这与什么有关，好的，我们将马上回来。

　　KING: I don't know what that has to do with it. All right, we'll be

right back。

　　(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

　　金：好的，就人权议题，不过，你必须承认你对学生、言论自由的捍卫者采取了严厉的打击措施，人们因为发表言论、在街头上举行示威活动而遭到逮捕，你不能说，伊朗在人权问题上有一个开放的良心，在人权问题持开放立场。你无法这样说。

　　KING: All right. On the human rights issue, though, you must admit that you have students, defenders of free speech that you have taken strong actions against, people in jail for just speaking their minds, protesting in the streets and arrested. You can't say that Iran has opened -- open conscience to human right -- is open for human rights to all. You can't say that。

　　内：甚至在我不在这里的时候，你可以说这样的事情，对吗？所以，你为何在我在这里的时候提及这样的事情？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： You can say these things even if I'm not here, right? So why would you need to mention it while I am here?

　　金：因为你是一个国家的元首，而且，

　　KING: Because you're the head of the country and --

　　内贾德：你看来是在审判，你在审判，我问你问题，美国有250万犯人，为什么？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It seems you are judging. You are judging. I asked the question. There are 2.5 million prisoners here and why --

　　金：他们不是因为在街头发表观点而入狱的，对这一议题进行比较性研究，他们不是因为举一个标语牌而入狱的。

　　KING: They're not in prison for speaking out on the streets --

　　KING: -- comparative study of this issue. KING: They're not in prison for holding up a sign。

　　内：请允许我，在伊朗，没有人因为参与抗议示活动而入狱，没有人因为参与抗议活动而被送入监狱。人们可以自由地举行抗议活动，但是如果在这里发生了抗议示威活动，有人袭击了警察并杀害了警察，你是否会奖励他们？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Allow me -- in Iran, nobody is in prison because of participating in protests. Nobody went to prison because of participating in protests. Protests are free. But say if you had protests here and somebody attacked the police and killed the police, would you reward them?

　　金：当然不会。

　　KING: Of course not。

　　内：你是否会奖励他们？为什么你会认为伊朗将奖励他们？如果有人违反了法律，案件将交由法官处理，案情将得到研究和审理？为什么美国的犯人入狱是因为法律问题，而伊朗犯人入狱就是非法的？在伊朗也有法律过程。伊朗发生过人们在抗议示威活动时袭击警察的事件，警察提出了控告，法官得处理这些案件。

　　现在，在美国，你告诉我，那些在监狱里的是罪犯，但在伊朗监狱里的是自由追求者？这很可怕。为什么美国当局总是试图支持那些在伊朗违反法律的人？这并不有助于美国的形象，只会恶化美国的形象。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Would you reward them? Why would you expect Iran to reward them? If anyone violates the law, the case has to go before a judge and it has to be examined and taken care of? Why is it only in the United States that prisoners are in prison for legal issues, legally; whereas in Iran, they're in prison illegally? In Iran, too, there's a legal process. There's been incidents where there have been protests and people attack the police. The police file complaints and the judge takes care of the issue。

　　Now, in the United States, you're telling me those in the prison are criminals, but in Iran those who are in prison are freedom seekers? That's awful. Why is it that U.S. authorities are always trying to support and back people who violate the law in Iran? This doesn't help the image of the United States. It just worsens it。

　　金：我们将无法解决这一问题。在那一领域的另一问题：你是否允许伊朗进行石刑？那名妇女获得了很多的关注？你是否允许石刑在伊朗合法？

　　KING: We're not going to resolve that. One other thing on that area; do you still permit stoning in Iran? We've had a lot of attention paid to that lady -- about that lady. Do you permit stoning lawful in Iran?

　　内：我认为我在过去几天已向记者们就此给出了解释。那名妇女的案件还没有完全审理完毕，还没有就此作出判决。她被控杀害了她的丈夫。我认为如果有人被控谋杀了她的丈夫，人们就会涌上街头，举行支持她的集会？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think that I have explained this in the past couple of days to a number of reporters. This lady's case has not been completely examined yet. No verdict has been issued yet. She is accused of being -- of murdering her husband. And I don't think in the world if someone is accused of murdering their husband, people would pour on the streets and rally in support of her。

　　金：如果他们将对她实施石刑，人们将会支持她。

　　KING: If they were going to stone her, they would。

　　内：她被控谋杀了她的丈夫，还没有下达判决，没有下达判决，没有刑罚。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： She has been accused of the murder of her husband. There is no verdict issued. No verdict, no sentence has been passed。

　　金：我所问的是

　　KING: All I asked was --

　　内：这根本与石刑没有关系，根本没有作出石刑的判决。德国有人发表了这样的不实传闻。我们的司法部门已表示那一传闻不实。

　　但我想向你提一个问题，拉里-金先生，如果可以的话，我们过去这个时候曾在一起。在匹兹堡举行过20国集会，10万人举行了示威活动以抗议20 国集团的经济政策。警方对他们发动了猛烈的攻击，许多人遭到痛殴，警方向他们泼热水，许多人遭到逮捕。你在告诉我，抗议示威活动在美国是自由的吗？

　　所以在美国，你是否认为人们可以聚集在街头，抗议犹太复国主义政权，10万人？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： And it is not about a stoning case at all. There's no stoning sentence here at all. A person in Germany made this claim, which was untrue. Our judiciary also said it was a false statement。

　　But I would like to ask a question to you, Mr. Larry King, if I may.

Last year, we were here the same time. In Pittsburgh, there was a session. The Group 20; over 100,000 people protested against the economic policies of the G-20. The police attacked them violently. Many were beaten up with -- or hot water was thrown on their bodies and many were arrested. And you're telling me that protests are free in the United States?

　　So here in the United States, do you think people can pour on the streets and protest against the Zionist regime, 100,000 people?

　　KING: I've got a time -- I've got to take a break. We'll be right back。

　　金：我们再次回到节目，你是否对美国有关在世贸遗址附近修建清真寺的争议有何看法？

　　KING: We're back with the president of Iran. Do you have an opinion about the controversy in the United States over the building of that Islamic Mosque near where the events of 9/11 took place?

　　内：我对此没有看法。如果要建设一座建筑物，市政当局或者市当局要对此进行研究，随后告诉人民他们的想法和决定，所以决定应由该市的人民和市当局作出。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I have no opinion on it. If a

building is to be built, the municipal authorities or the authorities for

the city have to examine it and then tell people what they think and what the decision is. So the decision is for the people of this city and its authorities to make。

　　金：你

　　KING: Do you --

　　内：我能就此作出什么决定？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： What decision can I make over it?

　　金：你可能对此有看法。

　　KING: You might have an opinion。

　　内：我对此没有任何看法，我认为，作为一个基本规则，任何人都应当尊重祈祷场所、宗教场所和神圣的书籍。这是我的理解。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I don't have any opinion on it. I think that everybody should respect, as a general rule, places of worship, the sanctities that human beings have, and to respect divine books. That I understand。