主题：[转载]内贾德舌战拉里金，美国右派频频进广告做挡箭牌-1 -- 迪塘钱

河里的规矩是不让全文转载，可是由于某些原因，给链接的话很多人就看不到的了。内贾德的访谈实在是精彩和犀利，不想河友们错过，所以就破例犯规全文转载了。

印象中Larry King是美国右派，他们妖魔化伊朗的手法同样也用来妖魔化中国。从这个访谈中你可以感受到他那种高高在上、以为美国及其盟友就是全世界的姿态。录像中Larry对内贾德说话经常是指指点点的，反观内贾德，不卑不亢，气定神闲。Larry被他批驳得体无全肤，频频进广告。

youtube 链接

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伊朗总统内贾德近日接受了美国有线电视新闻网拉里-金节目的专访。美国有线电视新闻网北京时间9月23日播出了这一采谈录。以下是采谈录实录(中英文对照)：

　　KING: Mr. President, thank you for coming back to LARRY KING LIVE. Do you like coming to America?

　　拉里-金(后简称为金)：总统先生，感谢你回到拉里-金实况。你喜欢来美国吗？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful, I'd like to say hello to your audience, to you and your colleagues, and ask Almighty God to bring health, prosperity and success to all people and nations and countries。

　　内贾德(后简称为内，通过翻译)：奉至仁至慈真主之名，我想向你的听众、你、你的同事问好。请求万能的真主给所有人和所有国家带来健康、繁荣、成功。

　　I am interested in traveling to all parts of the world to meet with

people. The United Nations is an important forum for the exchange of international ideas on how to run international affairs and naturally people like myself should be actively involved in its work。

　　我对前往世界各地和人们会面很感兴趣。联合国是一个就如何管理国际事务进行国际想法交流的一个重要论坛。很自然，像我这样的人应当积极参与它的工作。

　　KING: Let's get to some current issues. A few days ago, you released the American hiker, but there is still two captives in Iran. How long will they be detained?

　　金：让我们来谈一些时事议题。就在几天前，你释放了一名美国徒步者，但仍有两名徒步者被伊朗关押。他们要被关押多长时间？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Well, they crossed our borders, violated the borders, and a judge will take care of their case。

　　内：哦，他们越过了我们的边境，侵犯了我们的边境，一位法官将处理他们的案件。

　　KING: But you did release one. Is there any chance in the name of goodwill that you'll release the others? There were two hikers who made a mistake。

　　金：但你已经释放了其中的一人。是否存在你以良好愿望的名义释放其他两位徒步者的可能？两位徒步者只是犯了一个错误。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： That one person was released on bail because of mercy, compassion and as a humanitarian gesture. As for the others, yes, there is a chance, but the judge has to take care of the case。

　　内：一个人已因为同情、怜悯、作为一个人道主义姿态获得保释。对于其他两人来说，仍存在保释的可能性，但法官得处理该案。

　　KING: Do you know when?

　　金：你知道是什么时候吗？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It depends on the judge who will need to handle the case, issue a verdict. There's a process that must go through。

　　内：这取决于处理此案的法官，给出判决，必须走这套法律过程。

　　KING: Do you have any influence in that process?

　　金：你是否对这一过程有任何影响力？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I have no influence over it. But I have suggested for the lady, in her case, that it be regarded with clemency, mercy and more kindness and compassion to allow her to return to her family。

　　内：我对此没有影响力，但我就女徒步者案件给出了建议，我建议法官对此持宽厚、怜悯和更大的善意、同情心，以允许她返回美国与家人团聚。

　　KING: What about bail for the other two?

　　金：其他两人是否也能获得保释？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It is possible. It depends on the judge。

　　内：这是可能的，这取决于法官。

　　KING: Would you -- you're in New York for a few more days. You will address the U.N. tomorrow. Would you meet with their families if they asked to meet with you?

　　金：你是否，你还要纽约呆上数天，你将于明天向联合国发表讲演。如果徒步者的家人要求会见你，你是否会见他们？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Our program is closed right now in terms of the fact that it is a tight schedule. But I'd have to consider it. And having said that, I have received no requests。

　　内：我们的活动安排现在已经结束了，我们的时间表很紧，但我愿意考虑这件事。虽然如此，我并没有收到请求。

　　KING: But if they did request, might you consider it?

　　金：但是如果他们确实提出了请求，你是否会考虑呢？

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Yes, I would positively take it into consideration。

　　内：是的，我将会积极考虑他们的请求。

　　KING: That is hopeful。

　　金：这是有希望的。我们询问了徒步者鲍尔和法塔尔的家人，他们的母亲向你提出了这个问题。这两人的母亲仍在纽约。

　　总统先生，当你上一次12个月前在纽约参加联合国大会时，你承诺将要求司法部门加快处理我们孩子的案件，就案件表现出最大的宽大。这并没有发生，我们的心碎了。当你返回德黑兰，你是否会再次向司法部门提出要求？

　　We asked the families -- the families of Shane Bauer and Josh Fattal, the two prisoners, and their mothers passed this question along to you. This is from the mothers of the two still there。

　　Mr. President, the last time you were in New York for the U.N. General Assembly 12 months ago, you promised to ask the judiciary to expedite our children's case and show maximum leniency. Our hearts are broken that this has not happened. Please, will you make this request again when you return to Tehran?

　　内：我认为，这确实发生了。所有的国家在对待非法越境边境方面都制订有严格的法律，对这样的行为都要进行严惩。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think that it did happen. In all countries you have very strict laws and strict punishments for border crossings that are illegal。

　　金：你是否提出要求-他们询问你是否要求司法部门处理此案，他们想念他们的家人。

　　KING: But did you make the request -- they're asking if you would make the request of the judiciary to move it along. They miss their families。

　　内：我认为世界上有非常多的犯人。我是否要亲自就他们中的每个人提出要求？

　　现在，虽然这样说了，我已要求司法部门仔细研究三名美国徒步者的案件。你知道，世界上有许多犯人。在美国就有250万犯人。

　　我是否可以要求美国的司法部门表现出宽大？事实上，我将抓住这个机会，要求美国的司法部门对美国的250万犯人表现出宽大。他们有配偶，他们有母亲、孩子、父母。许多人很年轻。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think that there are many prisoners in the world. Do I have to make a personal request for everyone?

　　Now, having said that, I have requested the judiciary to look at the case of these three people's cases carefully but, you know, there are many prisoners in the world. Here in the United States, there are 2.5 million。

　　Can I request the judiciary here in the United States to show leniency and I would, in fact, seize this opportunity here and ask the judicial body of the United States, judicial leniency, in the case of the 2.5 million prisoners in this country. They have spouses. They have mothers, children, parents. Many are young。

　　金：我们将在广告时间后继续与伊朗总统内贾德进行讨论。

　　KING: We'll have more with the president of Iran right after this。

　　(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

　　金：我们回到节目，内贾德总统将于明天向联合国大会发表讲演，美国总统也将向联合国大会发表讲演。我们将随后谈到这一话题。

　　罗伯特-莱文森的情况如何？他是前联邦调查局特工，他已在伊朗失踪三年了。人们从未听到有关他的消息。首先，你是否能告诉我们，他是否还活着，他的状况是否还好？

　　KING: We're back with President Ahmadinejad. He will address the U.N. General Assembly tomorrow, as will the president of the United States。

　　We'll ask about that in a minute。

　　What about Robert Levinson? This is the former FBI agent. He's been missing in Iran for three -- over three years, hasn't been heard from. First, can you tell us, is he alive? Is he OK?

　　内：我认为我们应当向联邦调查局提出这个问题。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think we should ask that question from the FBI。

　　金：但是他是在你的国家里--

　　KING: But he's in your country --

　　内：我怎么会知道？我怎么应当知道？有许多人来到伊朗，随后就离开了。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： How would I know? How am I supposed to know? There are many individuals, many people who come to our country and then leave。

　　金：所以说你不知道他在哪里？

　　KING: So you have no idea where he is?

　　内：他来了又走了，和平常一样，我不知道他在哪里。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： He came and he left. As usual. No。

　　金：他的家人称，他的家人称，你的政府承诺将就莱文森的失踪提交一份全面报告，他们在此之后未听到任何消息。

　　KING: His family says -- his family that they were promised a full

report on his disappearance from your government and they have never heard anything。

　　内：我们从未作出过那样的承诺，我们同意与美国政府成立一个联合的信息和情报委员会以收集有关他下落的信息。我们已表示希望尽快成立这个委员会，我们表示，我们作好了加入委员会的准备。如果美国联邦调查局愿意提供他伊朗之行目的的更多信息、他知道什么信息、他的其它目的地是哪里，我们可能会就该案提供进一步的帮助。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： We never made that promise. We agreed to have a joint information and intelligence committee with the U.S. government to gather information about his whereabouts, on his whereabouts, and we have expressed hope that this committee will soon be held and we express our preparedness to be part of the committee。

　　Now if the FBI were to give more information about the purpose of this trip and what information he had and where his other destinations were, we might be able to assist further in the case。

　　金：但你不知道他在哪里？

　　KING: But you have no idea where he is?

　　内：你是否有任何信息？我和你一样，我对联邦调查局的项目一无所知。我不知道联邦调查局在世界各地从事什么样的活动。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Do you have any information? I'm like you, I have no idea what the FBI programs are. I don't know what the FBI does around the world。

　　金：我们昨天与他的妻子克里斯丁进行了交谈。她询问你是否能提供伊朗官员与联邦调查局会谈和共享信息的时间和日期？换句话说，她在说，联邦调查局愿意与你坐下来谈。你是否能给她一个时间和日期？

　　KING: We talked with -- well, we talked with his wife yesterday,

Christine, Mrs. Levinson. She asked that you give her a time and date for officials to meet with the FBI and share information。

　　In other words, she is saying the FBI is willing to sit down with your people. Can you give her a time and date?

　　内：是的，我接受并同意这一点。当人们旅行遇到问题，失踪，这使我们感到悲伤。这很可怕。我认为，当所有的情报组织的活动更加透明，建立在更加人道主义的基础之上，这样的问题将不会出现，但我将建议，情报委员会应当联合举行，伊朗和美国的代表可以坐下来，帮助确定他的下落。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Yes, I accept and agree with that. It saddens us when people travel, run into problems, disappear. It's awful。

　　I think that if all intelligence organizations work more transparently and based on more humanitarian principles, these problems would not arise, but I would recommend that that intelligence committee be held jointly so that the representatives of Iran and the United States can sit together and help trace his whereabouts。

　　金：你知道，他的女儿将于周六结婚。

　　KING: You know, his daughter is getting married Saturday。

　　内：我就她结婚表示祝贺。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I congratulate her on her marriage。

　　金：如果她的父亲能够出席，那将是非常美好的。

　　KING: It will be nice if her father were there --

　　内：我对她表示同情，肯定，她父亲能出席将是一件很好的事情，我希望那样的事情能够发生。我认为，美国联邦调查局应当在这件事更加积极，找到他们的特工。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： And I sympathize with her. Definitely, it would have been very good. I wish that it can happen. I think the FBI should be more active in this case and to find their agent。

　　金：你知道，总统先生，如果那是你的孩子，如果你的孩子之一越过了另一国的边境并遭到扣押，你将会非常担心，你将要求尽快处理案件，是否是这样？

　　KING: You know, Mr. President, if it were your children -- if one of your children crossed the border of another country and were being held, you would be very concerned and you would press the issue, would you not?

　　内：如果我的孩子违反了法律，正义必须得到申张，因为法律确保安全、稳定。必须遵守法律，如果违反了法律，就不会有安全了。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： If my child violates a law, justice must be served. Because law ensures security. And stability. And laws must be observed because if they are to be violated, there shall be no security。

　　金：我们回来将讨论更多议题。不要走开。

　　KING: We'll be right back with more. Don't go away。

　　(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

　　金：我们再次回来，我们正在采访伊朗总统内贾德。奥巴马总统和你都在纽约。如果有机会，你是否会会晤奥巴马？

　　KING: We're back with the president of Iran, President Ahmadinejad。

　　With President Obama here and you're here, would you meet with him if the opportunity arose?

　　内：这得看情况。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It depends。

　　金：取决于什么情况？

　　KING: On?

　　内：我们已宣布，我们作好了在联大与他进行自由会谈的准备。

　　我认为，在其它成员国和媒体之前坐下来进行，讨论我们的观点将是非常好的事情。在联合国进行交流。我认为，这将是非常积极的，因为所有的人都能听到我们所要说的东西。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： We have announced that we are prepared to freely talk with him at the U.N. General Assembly。

　　I think it would be very good to sit before members of other states and the media and to discuss our views. To have an exchange at the United Nations. I think that would be very positive so that everyone can hear what we have to say。

　　金：希拉里国务卿称，制裁措施正在重创伊朗经济，甚至伊朗前总统拉夫桑贾尼称，制裁措施很严重，不能忽视它们。你是否对制裁措施的效果和仍在持续的效果感到担心？

　　KING: Secretary of State Clinton says sanctions are biting your economy.Even the former president, Rafsanjani, said that the sanctions are serious,can't be dismissed. Are you worried about their effect and their continuing effect?

　　内：在我看来，你提出了数个议题。问题是美国政府为什么在联合国安理会制裁措施之外对伊朗施加了额外的制裁？这不是非法措施吗？

　　这是否是美国人民对伊朗人民、更为重要的是，这是否是美国政府对伊朗政府敌意的表示？

　　这是一个议题。第二个议题是，对我们来说，制裁措施真得不重要，因为我们在过去三十年里一直遭到制裁。此外，我们的经济也不是建立在美国经济的基础之上的，它是一个自力更生的经济，因为我们能够满足自己的需求。

　　令人感兴趣的是，在遭到制裁期间，我们具备了更多的动力来从事那些使我们经济跨越式发展的活动。我们在这方面相当成功。

　　现在，我们知道，在美国，许多人非常担心，许多人在制裁方面发出了许多噪音，甚至还援引了伊朗国内一些人的说法，这些人看起来对制裁措施损害伊朗的观点持同情立场。

　　但事实上，我们一点也不担心制裁措施，制裁措施事实上鼓励我们更加坚定地追求我们的经济目标。

　　美国政府与我们没有任何关系，在过去三十年里没有任何关系。他们采取制裁措施又如何？我们在没有美国的情况下生活了三十多年，我们已取得了进步。

　　当伊朗在美国的控制之下，它是一个落后的国家。自我们在没有美国的情况下开始生活后，我们已成为一个先进国家。这是否对我们是一件坏事？我认为这是一个积极的步骤。

　　AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It seems to me that you've raised several issues. The question is why does the U.S. government place sanctions that are over above those specified by the U.N.'s Security Council? Is that not an illegal measure?

　　Is it not indicative of the hostility of the U.S., the American people, towards the Iranian people and the U.S. administration, more importantly, towards the Iranian government?

　　That's one issue. The second issue is that sanctions really are

unimportant to us because we have been under sanctions for over 30 years. Furthermore, our economy is not based on the economy of the United States. It is a self-contained economy, an indigenous-based economy because we are able to provide for our own needs。

　　And interestingly, in the years of sanctions that have been imposed on us, we have also had more incentive to engage in activities that jump start and trigger our economy and we've been quite successful。

　　Now we know here in the United States, many are very concerned -- many have made a lot of noise over the sanctions and have even identified people in Iran who seem to sympathize with views here that sanctions harm Iran。

　　But really, that's of no concern to us because in -- on the ground sanctions have, in fact, encouraged us to be firmer in the pursuit of our economic goals。

　　The United States government has no relations with us. Has had none for over 30 years. So what is it that they are sanctioning? We have lived without the United States for over 30 years. And we have advanced。

　　When Iran was under the yoke of the United States, it was a backward country. Since we started living without the United States, we have become an advanced country. Is that bad for us? I think it's quite a positive -- step to take。