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- 【征集】西西河的经济学，及清流措施，需要主动参与者，『稷下学宫』新认证方式，24年网站打算和努力目标
主题：内贾德的口才真好。拉里金……不说也罢 -- box
家园 内贾德的口才真好。拉里金……不说也罢 内贾德把美国佬特有的强盗逻辑批驳得体无完肤。
http://video.sina.com.cn/p/news/w/v/2010-09-24/052461147367.html
KING: I don't know what that has to do with it. All right, we'll be right back。(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
金：好的，就人权议题，不过，你必须承认你对学生、言论自由的捍卫者采取了严厉的打击措施，人们因为发表言论、在街头上举行示威活动而遭到逮捕，你不能说，伊朗在人权问题上有一个开放的良心，在人权问题持开放立场。你无法这样说。
KING: All right. On the human rights issue, though, you must admit that you have students, defenders of free speech that you have taken strong actions against, people in jail for just speaking their minds, protesting in the streets and arrested. You can't say that Iran has opened -- open conscience to human right -- is open for human rights to all. You can't say that。
内：甚至在我不在这里的时候，你可以说这样的事情，对吗？所以，你为何在我在这里的时候提及这样的事情？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： You can say these things even if I'm not here, right? So why would you need to mention it while I am here?
金：因为你是一个国家的元首，而且，
KING: Because you're the head of the country and --
内贾德：你看来是在审判，你在审判，我问你问题，美国有250万犯人，为什么？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： It seems you are judging. You are judging. I asked the question. There are 2.5 million prisoners here and why --
金：他们不是因为在街头发表观点而入狱的，对这一议题进行比较性研究，他们不是因为举一个标语牌而入狱的。
KING: They're not in prison for speaking out on the streets --
KING: -- comparative study of this issue. KING: They're not in prison for holding up a sign。
内：请允许我，在伊朗，没有人因为参与抗议示活动而入狱，没有人因为参与抗议活动而被送入监狱。人们可以自由地举行抗议活动，但是如果在这里发生了抗议示威活动，有人袭击了警察并杀害了警察，你是否会奖励他们？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Allow me -- in Iran, nobody is in prison because of participating in protests. Nobody went to prison because of participating in protests. Protests are free. But say if you had protests here and somebody attacked the police and killed the police, would you reward them?
金：当然不会。
KING: Of course not。
内：你是否会奖励他们？为什么你会认为伊朗将奖励他们？如果有人违反了法律，案件将交由法官处理，案情将得到研究和审理？为什么美国的犯人入狱是因为法律问题，而伊朗犯人入狱就是非法的？在伊朗也有法律过程。伊朗发生过人们在抗议示威活动时袭击警察的事件，警察提出了控告，法官得处理这些案件。
现在，在美国，你告诉我，那些在监狱里的是罪犯，但在伊朗监狱里的是自由追求者？这很可怕。为什么美国当局总是试图支持那些在伊朗违反法律的人？这并不有助于美国的形象，只会恶化美国的形象。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Would you reward them? Why would you expect Iran to reward them? If anyone violates the law, the case has to go before a judge and it has to be examined and taken care of? Why is it only in the United States that prisoners are in prison for legal issues, legally; whereas in Iran, they're in prison illegally? In Iran, too, there's a legal process. There's been incidents where there have been protests and people attack the police. The police file complaints and the judge takes care of the issue。
Now, in the United States, you're telling me those in the prison are criminals, but in Iran those who are in prison are freedom seekers? That's awful. Why is it that U.S. authorities are always trying to support and back people who violate the law in Iran? This doesn't help the image of the United States. It just worsens it。
金：我们将无法解决这一问题。在那一领域的另一问题：你是否允许伊朗进行石刑？那名妇女获得了很多的关注？你是否允许石刑在伊朗合法？
KING: We're not going to resolve that. One other thing on that area; do you still permit stoning in Iran? We've had a lot of attention paid to that lady -- about that lady. Do you permit stoning lawful in Iran?
内：我认为我在过去几天已向记者们就此给出了解释。那名妇女的案件还没有完全审理完毕，还没有就此作出判决。她被控杀害了她的丈夫。我认为如果有人被控谋杀了她的丈夫，人们就会涌上街头，举行支持她的集会？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： I think that I have explained this in the past couple of days to a number of reporters. This lady's case has not been completely examined yet. No verdict has been issued yet. She is accused of being -- of murdering her husband. And I don't think in the world if someone is accused of murdering their husband, people would pour on the streets and rally in support of her。
金：如果他们将对她实施石刑，人们将会支持她。
KING: If they were going to stone her, they would。
内：她被控谋杀了她的丈夫，还没有下达判决，没有下达判决，没有刑罚。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： She has been accused of the murder of her husband. There is no verdict issued. No verdict, no sentence has been passed。
金：我所问的是
KING: All I asked was --
内：这根本与石刑没有关系，根本没有作出石刑的判决。德国有人发表了这样的不实传闻。我们的司法部门已表示那一传闻不实。
但我想向你提一个问题，拉里-金先生，如果可以的话，我们过去这个时候曾在一起。在匹兹堡举行过20国集会，10万人举行了示威活动以抗议20 国集团的经济政策。警方对他们发动了猛烈的攻击，许多人遭到痛殴，警方向他们泼热水，许多人遭到逮捕。你在告诉我，抗议示威活动在美国是自由的吗？
所以在美国，你是否认为人们可以聚集在街头，抗议犹太复国主义政权，10万人？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： And it is not about a stoning case at all. There's no stoning sentence here at all. A person in Germany made this claim, which was untrue. Our judiciary also said it was a false statement。
But I would like to ask a question to you, Mr. Larry King, if I may. Last year, we were here the same time. In Pittsburgh, there was a session. The Group 20; over 100,000 people protested against the economic policies of the G-20. The police attacked them violently. Many were beaten up with -- or hot water was thrown on their bodies and many were arrested. And you're telling me that protests are free in the United States?
So here in the United States, do you think people can pour on the streets and protest against the Zionist regime, 100,000 people?
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家园 这就是所谓的当众打脸啊 家园 最后一段最精彩。完全是以子之矛攻子之盾！ 但我想问美国为何如此坚决来保护犹太复国主义政权？美国政府与远在1万公里之遥的犹太复国主义政权有何关系，美国有什么必要支持它？AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Aside related to the Zionist regime issue this news -- Mr. Castro sent a message to me yesterday and said it was untrue, this statement, that his statements were interpreted differently, that he had said something different. So I have no opinion here on this statement。
But I'd like to ask why is there so much insistence in the United States to absolutely defend the Zionist regime? What is the relationship between the U.S. government, 10,000 kilometer across the ocean from the Zionist regime, and the need to support it?
金：因为有大量的犹太人仅仅因为是犹太人而遭到屠杀，七百万、八百万犹太人遭到屠杀。作为一个人道主义国家，我们对此很关注。许多犹太人来到这里生活。许多犹太人在以色列创造了一个国家，想在那里和平地生活。
你是否知道，卡斯特罗称，你应当认识到世界仍然存在反犹主义，我们应当对此感到关切。
KING: Because a massive group of people were annihilated just for being what they were. Seven Million were killed, eight million. So as a humanitarian country, we care about this. And many Jews came here to live. And many Jews created a country in Israel and wanted to live in peace。
Don't you -- now, Castro did say you should recognize anti- Semitism exists in the world, and we all should be concerned about it。
内：这是否是一个真正的议题，美国政府想保护人权？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Is that the real issue, that the U.S. government wants to defend human rights?
金：当然。
KING: Of course。
内：那些人是在哪里被杀害的？他们是在巴勒斯坦被杀害的吗？是被巴勒斯坦人杀害的吗？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Where were these people killed? Were they killed in Palestine? By the hands of Palestinians?
金：他们在哪里被杀害并不重要，事实是他们遭到了屠杀。
KING: It doesn't matter where they were killed, it's the fact that they were killed。
内：哦，那么一百万伊拉克人被杀就可以吗？如果伊拉克人决定到美国来，占领美国，这是否被允许？他们是在伊拉克被杀的，你将允许他们来占领美国吗？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： Oh. Then it's all right for a million Iraqi people to be killed and then, would it be OK if they decided to come and occupy the United States? They were killed in Iraq. Would you allow them to come occupy the United States?
金：你是在说美国犯下了种族屠杀的罪行，你是在说美国犯下了种族屠杀的罪行？
KING: You're not saying the United States committed genocide? You're saying the United States committed genocide?
内：这是一个单独的讨论，是的，这样的情况在伊拉克和阿富汗都发生了。但它是单独的议题。我想问你，如果在一个国家，一些人的权利遭到侵犯，他们遭到压迫，按照你的想法，如果你的说法是正确的话，这是否意味着他们可以去占领另一块土地？这是否符合逻辑？如果我们按照这种逻辑行事，世界还会有安全吗？
1亿人或者8千万人在第二次世界大战中丧生，如果他们要占领世界各地的二十个国家，那将是非常可怕的。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： That's a separate discussion. And, yes, it did happen in both Iraq and Afghanistan. But that's a separate issue. I like to ask you, if in a country someone's rights are violated, they're oppressed, assuming that your assumption, your statement is correct, does that imply that they can go and occupy another land? Is there any logic in that? If we were to follow that logic, will there be any security left in the world?
In World War II, 100 million -- or 80 million people were killed. If they were to go occupy 20 countries around the world, that would have been terrible。
金：以色列是一个合法国家。
KING: Israel is a legal state。
内：问题在于，问题是，你刚才说这是因为犹太大屠杀，你为何改变了说法？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： The question is -- come on. The question -- you just said yourself it's over the Holocaust. Why are you changing your statement?
金：你是在说
KING: You were saying --
内：我的问题是美国如此坚决保护以色列的利益是什么？在世界许多地方，人们的人权遭到侵犯。你知道有多少美国印第安人被屠杀？你是否知道？
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： My question is what are the interests of the United States to -- in absolutely defending them. There are many parts of the world where human rights are violated. Do you know how many American Indians were killed? Do you know or not?
金：我知道，我们的时间到了。
KING: I know. We're out of time。
内：你是一名记者，你应当有这些问题的答案。
AHMADINEJAD (through translator)： You're a reporter. You should have the answers to these。
金：我们没有时间了，我们明年将与伊朗总统再次进行讨论。我是拉里-金，不要走开。
KING: We're out of time. We'll pick this up next year with the president of Iran. I'm Larry King. Don't go away。
家园 拉里在搞脱口秀 这样子怎么能搞过政治家？收视率+噱头毕竟没法和稍微严谨一点的逻辑去抗衡。何况美国有这么多没法说出口的小辫子。也就是太胖没有人经常揪一下而已。
家园 花。 这里有完整的
家园 这个Larry King 以前对他的访谈节目就不怎么感兴趣，所以对他了解不多。
但作为一个名嘴，CNN的头牌，名声倒是大的很，所以总以为他很厉害，看了这次的访谈，和伊朗总统整个不是一个等级的，和内贾德比起来，Larry King就是个被深度洗脑的小屁孩，根本不上台面。被伊朗总统玩弄于股掌之间，说不过了就插广告，广告回来换个话题，结果再被打脸，然后再插，再被打。他这张老脸皮也够厚，不以为羞，真是屡败屡战，屡战屡败。
后来都看不下去了，说Larry King被痛殴绝对没问题，就这水平还名嘴！我呸！
家园 拉里金完败 他比内贾德差了几条马路。说到关键的时候他就插广告，最后在内贾德的雄辩下只能草草结束，根本不让内贾德把话说完。
家园 严重支持老德 家园 不仅仅是口才的问题 我觉得这不仅仅是口才的问题，larry king在美国也算是数一数二的名嘴了，如果仅仅考虑口才，其差别未必会有实际表现出来的这么大，更重要的原因我觉得是四个字：邪不胜正。所以这次交锋，内贾德完胜，larry king完败，而且败得很不体面，经常是不得不用插播广告来打断一些关键性的反问。