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- 【征集】西西河的经济学，及清流措施，需要主动参与者，『稷下学宫』新认证方式，24年网站打算和努力目标
主题：某正建造航母的大国，你民主了吗？ -- 老科学的家
家园 我好像已经上钩了。 能在下锅之前让我死个明白么？
家园 【原创】虽然是钓鱼，还是有些感慨 200多年来，中国终于和大英帝国一个待遇了，虽然只是衰弱的日不落帝国。
就这个话题谈几个感想。
1，航母是海权的象征。作为经济与贸易全球化重要一环的中国，不论是为了保护海运通道，还是为了保障能源与原材料供应，海权必须掌握在自己手里。换个角度看，英国作为曾经的日不落帝国和航母的发明国，今天已经造不起也用不起航母了（英法将共享航母），恰恰说明了它在全球化产业链中的地位不再那么重要。当然，英国仍在金融，科技，军事三大支柱中控制着两大支柱，虽然总体地位下降，却仍占据食物链的高端。
2，中国地理位置特殊，既是欧亚大陆的东端，也是太平洋的西岸，是世界上少有的同时具有海权与陆权的大国。高铁作为未来中欧中俄贸易的通道，可以减轻中国对海洋（即航母）的依赖，也就减少了对美国的依赖。铁路集装箱将是铁道部改革的一个重点领域。
3，全球化发展到今天，中国占据了大多数低端和相当一部分中端领域，量很大但利润不高，工人分享的利益有限。英国占据了金融IT等高端，但制造业空心化日益突出，产业工人流失严重，失业率上升。中欧美各国在产业链位置上的剧烈变动，恰恰是各国社会稳定的不安因素。中国要想进入高端，必然会引起他国的反弹。除了自身产业的努力外，航母的保驾护航是必须的。所以航母是社会维稳的重要手段。
4，中国与英国的维稳困境，是全球化与信息化的必然结果。一方面全球化引起各国产业结构剧烈变动，另一方面INTERNET的兴起使得传统的金字塔型管理快速转向扁平化管理。不论是公司还是国家治理，不能适应这一转型过程必然会发生动荡。
Thomas Friedman最新的一篇文章值得推荐：
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/opinion/sunday/Friedman-a-theory-of-everyting-sort-of.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
家园 文章不错 写的很清楚
多谢推荐
家园 闲的蛋疼，准备翻译这篇文章钓外国鱼，大家提提意见 aircraft carrier VS. unrest society
Recently, one of the world leading powers are speedily building a emblematic aircraft carrierin a northern city.
Even if it may sink into an awkward predicament with no available Carrier-based planes after the constuction is fulfilled, still nothing can prevent it from becoming an emblem of this leading power.
This leading power has a lot more emblems, including a once-powerful-and-prosperous empire, its unique tea culture, its language once contibuted greatly to many other countries, its beautiful psalms, it being twice winner of two world wars, etc. Further more it's a permanent member state of UN Security Council.
This country deserves being proud of, because when it reached its peak, the now-No.1 United States was still a wild land.
But now, the people of this leading power has to spare no efforts to pay the bills of American consumers. This country has bought tons of American debts, and as the Economist says,"every citizen of this country has to pay 4757 Dollars for Americans' unscrupulous consumption."
Though this country styles itself as a great power, many people consider whether this country, which is not largely unified and solidarized, is qualified to be a great power---in some sport events, different parts of this country compete under different banners.
But this country delivers many black stories under it glossy surface.
While the aircraft carrier is under construction, its stabilisation authorities are oppressed with great pressure due to the serious riots. They dispel the rallies, and even are plotting to cutting some internet sites through which people express their dissatisfaction.
As Vancouver Sun comments on the 10th, the society of this country is in "pathosis"
A french commentator told BBC bluntly, this country has a "most inequal society".
The American magazine Foreign Policy said, the present rallies can remind people of what happened not long ago. The history is repeating itself.
Some state leaders indicates, this country shall face it domestic conflicts squarely, and give their people full respect. they interrogates, "What country should treat its people like this?"
Speedily construction of aircraft carrier VS. increasingly unrest society.
What good can an aircraft carrier do to a unstable country?
家园 建议（CNN版） A Carrier of Civil unrest
Recently, one of the world leading powers is building an iconic aircraft carrier in one of its northern port. This project is to be yet another symbol of said country's self-perceived world dominance, even though the carrier faces the weird predicament of having no plane to carry upon completion.
This latest symbol will be in keeping with a long line of such symbols this country has accumulated from its imperial past, among which are its unique tea culture, its literature achievement, its influential language and characters.
Indeed, this ancient culture has a lot to be proud of: it had won both world wars and had earned a permenant seat at the united nation's security council. Furthermore, it was already the epitome of human civilization before the current superpower, the USA, was conceived as a nation.
Yet, today, the people of this once proud civilization have to bear the debt of american consumer; as a prominent economist pointed out, as a nation who purchase a large amount of US debt, "every citizen of this country has to pay 4757 Dollars for Americans' unscrupulous consumption." （最好把原话放在这里）
Although this country has been trying to style itself as a world power, many observers question its legitimacy, pointing out the fact that this nation is hardly unified; a good example of which would be different parts of said nation competing under different flags in certain sport event.
Furthermore, the real story of this nation is much less glossy than the image it is desperately trying to hold up.
Just as the aircraft carrier is being constructed, severe riots break out in major cities of the nation, threatening to destabilize the already fragile economic situation and forcing the authority to crack down on the rioters with brute force. Extreme measures including the censorship of certain social networking website were employed, denying basic human rights to its civilian.
As the Vancouver sun so succinctly summarizes, the society of this country is in "pathosis".
Such social unrest is not without cause. As a french commentator told the BBC, this country has one of the most "unequal society". As such, this leads to the nation facing constant civil unrest, and as the American publication Foreign Policy pointed out, it is merely history repeating itself.
Some state leaders had urged the nation's leadership to address its social issue, as well as restore basic respects to its citizenry. One of them even quipped, "Who would treat their own people like that?"
Is a new, shiny military icon worth the social cost to the country? For the sake of humanity, we hope the leadership of this nation do not wait to find out the hard way.
通宝推：简裕,家园 跟大家汇报一下钓鱼结果，6条。唉，我这个人就是保不住密 昨天去了一个在中国的外籍教师讨论区发帖。钓上如下几条翻译如下：
1 老兄，你的问题很傻（指英文版最后的问题）。外部冲突是个安全阀，减轻内部压力。
2 老兄，中国没有赢得两次大战。
3 （这个人很聪明）中国如果不是最大的龙门吊生产国，也是其中之一，脸红了吧？
4 美国是债务国，所以美国得还每个中国人4757元
5 再过十年，美元贬到和人民币等值，钱就很好还了。
6 不错，美国欠中国的债和你欠银行的债不一样。过去100年欠债累累的国家现在的gdp都在前10。欠债不是死刑判决，不会让你成为债务奴隶。
然后我憋不住了，就问第三个回复者：赞！那你认为我指的是哪个国家？
接着就有人醒过味儿了：哈哈！你在玩聪明！说实话，我不了解国债的数据。我想你指的是5月开工的威尔士亲王号吧，所以你说的是英国。但如果你指的是英国，你犯了一个致命的错误：
你好几次把英国描述成“世界强国”，“大国”。
难怪把人都搞糊涂了。（意即英国算不上什么大国）。
不过我在回帖时可能英文不地道，被人怀疑第一语言是不是英语···
家园 有趣,外国鱼比中国鱼聪明. 家园 求围观地址 - 复 求围观地址
家园 不好意思，这个讨论区只有注册登录才能浏览和发言··· 我只是在这个地方试试水。结果觉得很麻烦，得跟鬼子用英文论战——我哪有这些闲工夫。
不过眼下至少得对付这个回复：
I would infer that you meant China due to the following:Quote:
no available Carrier-based planes
Well, Britain has Harriers and Sea Harriers.
Quote:
this leading power lacks the technique to manufacture one of the most important facility, the gantry cran
This applies neither to China nor Britain. Maybe you're confused.
Quote:
every citizen of this country has to pay 4757 Dollars for Americans' unscrupulous consumption.
This sounds suspiciously like China. This is a board to discuss issues in China, so if it's not the country you're referring to, it has no place on this board.
Quote:
increasingly unrest society
Quote:
one of the world leading powers are speedily building
Quote:
one of the most important facility
Quote:
permanent member state of UN Security Council
Quote:
its stabilisation authorities are oppressed with great pressure
This is just pathetically poor English, but it may be good Chinglish. I hope for the sake of everyone you are not trying to be an English teacher.
Before you start trying to be the wise guy, I'd suggest you check facts, the suitability of posts, basic concepts of sea power, and fundamentals of English grammar and semantics. Do you even know the difference between a rally and a riot?
关于舰载机，龙门吊和国债倒是找到英文链接了，只是后面的内容得花一番心思，我这人有点懒，大家帮忙想想怎么回复？
家园 感谢：作者获得通宝一枚。 家园 请汇报一下钓鱼成绩，好吗？ 家园 一定要加上龙门吊 Even if it may sink into an awkward predicament with no available Carrier-based planes after the constuction is fulfilled, still nothing can prevent it from becoming an emblem of this leading power.Further more, it lacks the technique to manufacture one of the most important facility, the gantry crane, and has to import it with high price.家园 花，您果然有闲，建议去那些媒体的网站把引用的原文查到
家园 花，太逗了，今天刚在凯迪上围观完钓上来的400多条鱼…… 今天刚在凯迪上围观完钓上来的400多条鱼，就发现河里也有了。好久以来看到的最经典的钓鱼贴，关键是都是真的，啥航母啦，啥参加国际比赛不是一个队啦，尤其是最后引用“国外领导人”内贾德、卡扎菲同志讲话，不知道作者怎么想来的！
对了，这篇文章的原作者好像不是未名的，而是来自百度魔兽贴吧。