主题：【原创】温家宝讲述的天下大势 -- 同人于野

一是解放和发展生产力，极大地增加全社会的物质财富；一是逐步实现社会公平与正义，极大地激发全社会的创造活力和促进社会和谐。上述两大任务相互联系、相互促进，是统一的整体，并且贯穿于整个社会主义历史时期一系列不同发展阶段的长久进程中。没有生产力的持久大发展，就不可能最终实现社会主义本质所要求的社会公平与正义；不随着生产力的发展而相应地逐步推进社会公平与正义，就不可能愈益充分地调动全社会的积极性和创造活力，因而也就不可能持久地实现生产力的大发展。

Democracy up to 100 years away, China's Premier says

SCOTT MCDONALD

Associated Press

BEIJING — Communist leaders have no plans to allow democracy in the near future because they must focus on economic development before political reform, China's No. 3 leader said in comments published Tuesday.

Democracy will emerge once a “mature socialist system” develops but that might not happen for up to 100 years, Premier Wen Jiabao wrote in an article in the People's Daily, the main Communist Party newspaper.

For now, China must focus on “sustained rapid growth of productive forces ... to finally secure fairness and social justice that lies within the essence of socialism,” Mr. Wen wrote.

The Premier said the country is “still far from advancing out of the primary stage of socialism. We must adhere to the party's basic guidelines of the primary stage of socialism for 100 years.”

Mr. Wen's comments, which appeared as the government prepares for its annual parliament session, come amid pressure by activists for an end to the ruling party's monopoly on power but made no reference to those demands.

The communist government has carried out limited political reforms in recent years, allowing non-partisan elections for the lowest-level village leadership posts. But the ruling party controls policymaking, and harasses and jails activists who call for multiparty democracy.

Mr. Wen said China would develop its own democratic policies and that a socialist system was not contradictory to those policies.

“A highly developed democracy and a complete legal system are inherent requirements of the socialist system and important symbols of a mature socialist system,” Mr. Wen said.

China's ceremonial parliament, the National People's Congress, opens Monday and is expected to discuss property and tax law changes.

China's economy has boomed in recent years, growing at double digit rates, but the expansion has been uneven. Communist leaders acknowledge that a growing wealth gap was threatening to undermine political stability and their control of the country.

Mr. Wen said that while economic development was the central task, that had to be done while building a harmonious society — the government's catchphrase to describe efforts to help the hundreds of millions who have not yet benefited from China's rapid economic growth.

gulu Ng from Canada writes: I agree that economic development must go before political reform. but 100 yrs is too far away.. how about make it 50?

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:16 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Law Reform from Toronto, Canada writes: Yes, the Chinese system isn't perfect, but it's not easy managing a country with 1.2 billion people. Just look how screwed up the Americans are with less than 30% the population of China.

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:32 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada writes: 100 years ? That's about how long it will take me to go shopping at a Walmart.

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:51 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Andrew Burke from Canada writes: Law Reform: Perhaps India could mimic China when it comes to economic reform and China could mimic India when it comes to political reform?

Posted 27/02/07 at 4:15 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

X. T. from Waterloo ON, Canada writes: Andrew,

Then they both get screwed. :-D

Posted 27/02/07 at 5:21 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Brendan Caron from Vancouver, Canada writes: I take it that what he is saying is that for the next hundred years Communist China will live the hedonistic materialism way until they learn how to share.

Posted 27/02/07 at 5:56 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

James CHIPMAN from Canada writes: 100 years to global domination , now thats looking ahead . So any chinese person that is 30-40 years old , their great grandkids might see some form of democracy , MIGHT !!! Oh well , guess it cant be all that bad , at least they got a plan for the next 100 years , our government cant look past their next term in office.

Posted 27/02/07 at 6:46 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Vickky Angstrom from Calgary, Canada writes: The trouble is, it is easy for other world leaders to catch on to the idea that a country is an economy first and a society second. This is why trade needs to be linked to human rights and democracy.

The Chinese economy will destabilize if they do not find ways to become more democratic and take care of their most vulnerable citizens - especially protecting them from corruption. This leader just wrote a licence for all the corrupt officials in China to carry on abusing citizens. Let's hope that Harper doesn't decide that we should hold off on democracy for the sake of the economy as well.

Posted 27/02/07 at 7:41 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

john chuckman from Toronto, Canada writes: Well, this puts China on the same footing as the United States.

I can't see democracy taking any less time to arrive there.

Posted 27/02/07 at 7:46 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Edward Thomas from Kingston, Canada writes: Wen Jiabao, a geomechanical engineer by training, needs to read more history books. Emerging middle classes have never been patient about gaining political influence. Telling them they will not see any political power in their lifetimes isn't a very smart move.

Posted 27/02/07 at 8:17 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

thomas ip from Shenzhen, Canada writes: Who cares whether or not any country is a democracy or not as long as money talks. Isn't it what it is all about?

Posted 27/02/07 at 8:56 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Eric H from Canada writes: So this means Taiwan will be free for at least another 100 years.

Posted 27/02/07 at 8:57 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Watson Jones from United States writes: No democracy in the US? Get real. It is in Canada where things are rammed down the throats of citizens. When is the last time there was a popular referendum, perhaps the most basic form of democracy, in Canada? (Though in fairness, I guess that would be Quebec separation). They happen all the time in US. My guess is that many of these commenters don't like popular referenda anyway, since they represent the will of the majority of people, but clearly they are democratic institutions and represent an additional check on the power of government. Many US states also vote for judges, so you don't get ones who care so much more about criminals than honest citizens. Again, you may not agree, but this is indeed democratic. Finally, though there are many more examples, US votes on all representatives--senators are not appointed. To suggest that the US is somehow less democratic than Canada is just plain silly.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:04 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

robert marshall from Scarborough, Canada writes: All these who gain power are afraid to loose it

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:09 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

thomas ip from Canada writes: No, Taiwan will not be free (at least economically) until it returns back to China.

Remember who said 'To be rich is Glorious'.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:10 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Rob Misek from Whitby, Canada writes: If their priority is the economy over human rights for the next 100 years I suspect the environment is farther down the priority list.

We can thank Wen for clarifying that the only way to affect human rights and environmental progress in China is through trade and sanctions.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:13 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Joseph Sis from Ottawa, Canada writes: I am a Canadian (not from Chinese origin) who recently returned from a two years stay, working in China. What an eye opener ! I can't say enough about how great and how comeptent the leadership of that country is, as compared to the slowly rotting so-called 'democratic ' system in the west. How big is the difference between a de-facto one party system (officially China has more than one party) and the de-facto two party system in most of western democracies? How democratic is our choice when lobbyists and special interest groups hold the strings of elected officials who need millions, tens of millions or even hundreds of millions to win elected office. Instead of escaping our problems to criticize China, let's learn humility from the chinese and improve our system first ! Competence and integrity of government is what matters to citizens. The Chinese central government is facing equal challenges to our Federal government in a push and pull game with the provinces and local authorities, they are succeeding in achieving steady progress on all fronts, progress doesn't mean Perfection, it may take 100 years of steady progress to achieve an almost perfect system, I think that's what Mr Wen meant, not 100 years to reach the mediocre democracy that we can't stop bragging about. Finally in my 2 years of living and working with Chinese I never felt that anyone was holding back their opinion on any topic, political or otherwise, nor did I meet anyone who was yearning for a western democratic system. Exactly the opposite, they generally laugh and think we are clueless when they read or hear the nonsensical western perspectives about China and the Chinese. Westerners who write their articles while sitting in five stars hotels in Shanghai or Beijing are truly clueless, even more, those sitting behind desks in ....USA

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:15 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Vickky Angstrom from Calgary, Canada writes: Watson Jones: In our last popular referendum Canadians were asked whether we would like to change Stockwell Day's name to Doris Day. Over a million people responded in the affirmative - democracy in action and an excellent demonstration of how referenda work.

It is difficult for me to read about democracy in the United States given George Bush's non-election. Are you sure your name isn't Chad?

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:16 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Vickky Angstrom from Calgary, Canada writes: Joseph Sis: According to Amnesty International 10 million political prisoners are currently in jail in China. They are not accorded due process of law and can be executed and tortured at any moment. Orphans (especially girl children) are left to die a long agonizing death by starvation in state-run orphanages if they are thought to be too weak to survive. And on and on. Terribly efficient, but so were Hitler and Stalin. Sure, there are a lot of great things in China - but lack of democracy and corruption of officials shame all Chinese.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:23 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Aussie Expat from Toronto, Canada writes: Joseph Sis: Why did you come back then? Seems like a paradise on earth living in China.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:23 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

thomas ip from Shenzhen, Canada writes: I totally agree with you Joseph Sis.

The western countries are so hypocrtical when it comes to human rights. Which country sold black people as slaves and which country took the land from the native people?

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:23 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Chris Lalonde from Singapore writes: If you look at some of the posts made at the G&M (ex. Canadian posters who'd rather cheer for the Taliban than our troops), you'd think that we're not even 100 years from democracy but rather ZERO progress from the stone age!

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:30 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

J.C. Davies from Canada writes:

'I am a Canadian (not from Chinese origin) who recently returned from a two years stay, working in China. What an eye opener ! I can't say enough about how great and how comeptent the leadership of that country is, as compared to the slowly rotting so-called 'democratic ' system in the west'.

Back in the 1930's many tavellers returned from the Soviet Union proclaiming that life under Stalin was superior to the West. In hindsight we know those people were either fools or liars.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:34 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes: Did anybody bother to ask the chinese leaders to tell us what they saw as 'democracy'?. Even in this land of ours most people think that democracy is all about counting bits of paper. And the concept of democracy gets even worse south of the border. That's why so many were jolted by the Supreme Court's decision on security certificates. Most didn't realize that the fundamentals of democracy actually go far farther than a pencil mark on a piece of paper. Now, exactly what does the chinese leadership understand 'democracy' to be.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:47 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Raymond Lei from Toronto, Canada writes: What I interpreted Mr. Wen's 100 years is as long as the communist party holds the power there should be no democracy. Also, the term of 100 years is symbolic which means FOREVER. However, who knows and who cares what will happen in 100 years when people of this generation already rest in peace. I believe the message Mr. Wen wants to send across is to reaffirm people that China needs social and political stability to develop its economy.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:51 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

dman T from Toronto, Canada writes: China's idea of deomocracy is Tiananmen Square.........

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:52 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Ragged Mouths from Montreal, Canada writes: It's unfortunate, but we are the ones to blame (in part) for this 'economy first, democracy second' rhetoric. if we had facilitated Russia's entrance into democratic capitalism, rather than just putting up fast food chains, and if Russia was wealthier right now, more countries would be willing to try 'democracy first, economy second'. Unfortunately the USSR is a good example of why China is, in this case, somewhat correct, even if the 'reasoning' employed here is, in many respects, a mask for evil.

That said, I agree with the above poster that it is downright stupid to tell the emerging middle-classes that they must wait a century for a taste of power.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:55 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

jen andersen from vancouver, Canada writes: When a Chinese says 'a hundred years' - he means it's going to take a long time. But time is relative to an individual, it could actually mean 50 years or even 25 years. For example, when a Chinese says that he'd wish a person to 'live 10,000 years', that means he'd wish the person to live a long time and not to physically live 10,000 years. Anti-Sinoism derives from ignorance. We must understand the Chinese more and vice versa in order to take away the fear of each other. It scares me when I go to Richmond and see 10,000 Chinese.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:56 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

L Tang from Toronto, Canada writes: Definitely misleading and losing context...

If you can read Chinese, here is the official publishing:

http://politics.people.com.cn/GB/1024/5418093.html

The real meaning is : we will struggle for the Democratic system to several descents because of the complexity of our system...

I got lost by this G&M title, so I checked the original one, then...

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:56 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

thomas ip from Shenzhen, Canada writes: dman T: Have you any idea who engineered Tiannamen Square?

All the student leaders who were behind the revoult are now living in US and Europe.

Posted 27/02/07 at 9:58 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

dman T from Toronto, Canada writes: The people in Tiananmen square protesting were intellecutals and liberals...... liberals were killed for protesting by a thug leadership.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:00 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Joseph Sis, you seem to be forgetting about a few other important aspects of life in China - millions of political prisoners, the widespread use of torture and capital punishment, selling prisoners' organs on the world market (a process in which prisoners are kept barely alive until the transaction is completed), female infanticide.... My list is by no means complete. The government of China is guilty of crimes on the same scale as those committed by Hitler and Stalin. If it were not for the fact that China is such a lucrative market for the West (not to mention home to so many WalMart sweatshops) and that it has both a large population and military, the country's leaders would have been dragged off to The Hague long ago. Unfortuately, the pursuit of profit has always trumped human rights. In the case of China, it will continue to do so unless there is a real revolution in the country.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:00 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Michael Sharp from Daffodil City, Canada writes: When they say 100 years, I'm thinking they know it will be a whole lot sooner.

Otherwise, why say it?

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:03 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

L Tang from Toronto, Canada writes: Use your heads, Yours!

Do you think it's realistic that a gang (no matter how many in them) can dictated one and half billion people who can reached any information from outside world by internet, newspapers, books, magazines,letters, or technical menus from IBM or Microsoft, or at least by rumors?

And you also think this gang is idiots to be a super power in a complex scocial system of 1.5 BILLION guys?! Freak out me.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:07 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

thomas ip from Shenzhen, Canada writes: dman T: Do you know old these 'intellectuals....liberals' are?

They are not even old enough to vote.

They only know that the greenbacks are behind them and will be rewarded with a greencard.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:10 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Ramesh Fernando from Canada writes: Wen doesn't realize when democracy will happen. It's not if Wen but when and no will know who the hell Hu was just like Eric Honecker in East Germany. It's inevitable, the Kumotiang nationalists in Taiwan thought they could rule for hundreds of years but they had to give in to democracy. With all the corruption of the Communist party, where taxes are being forced on the peasants unfairly to pay for corrupt party officials, where development is only in the cities without thinking about the countryside. Where it's an enviromental distaster, smog, acid rain, water table going haywire, soil erosion. Where State owned enterprises are being loaned all the money from banks at low interest after paying even lower interest, and all the SOEs are going to collpase. It's a domino effect. Overbuilding in Shanghai, millions of properties going without tenants. Falung Gong or someone else wil force democracy. Mark my words, it will be the peasants who will force the democracy, actually falung gong may not be part of it since it's more middle class folks who are into that. Just like the peasants supported Mao against the Chian-Kai-Shek and the nationalists, democracy will come very soon. To Joseph Sis, I assume North Korea is the most beautiful country in the world for you.

These Beijing dictator thugs are finished very soon. Just like Castro Kim and Vietnamese junta oh yeah and the burmese junta they will all go down in history as loosers to democracy.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:11 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

dman T from Toronto, Canada writes: Thomas ip - so you think its ok to butcher protesters? you are a member of the communist party and hate students from your own country. students were protesting becuase of the repressive regime you defend.

were you smiling when tanks ran over these people?

you're a clueless idiot

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:12 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Michael Palmer from Waterloo, Canada writes: 100 years - quite short actually, if you put it into context. Hitler declared his Third Reich was going to last for 1000 years...

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:13 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Vickky Angstrom from Calgary, Canada writes: L. Tang - I really appreciate your translation of the headline. I wonder: do you think this means that Chinese leaders think that they already have a democracy?

I am also curious how long you think it will take for a multi-party system to come to China. I hope China uses a different electoral system than ours when the time comes.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:14 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Alfred Dreyfus from Canada writes: For centuries the Chinese have thought and planned long-term. A hundred years is nothing to those who don't have to worry about an election every four or five.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:15 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: Watson Jones The fact that you just posted a text book definition of how the US system should work and why it's democratic was the first reason I suspected your post.. Then I realized you were actually from the US, of all the things Americans get divided over (guns, healthcare, education) them believing that their system is a democracy (if not the most superior) is by far the main thing they can agree on.. While you may disagree with the Canadian system, you need to do a bit of actual research on your political system.. The out of control lobbying and spending, the fact that judges don't rule based on what is right but what is popular, and subjecting minority rights decisions to referenda (which are nortoriously unreliable).. You call a referendum democratic, but when you give a complex problem to people who are not prepared/informed correctly to make a decision it is democracy in name only.. It's well known that people will often vote on a referenda as a way of supporting or punishing a government.. Partisan politics skews numbers even further.. combine this with the fact that you can't put a minority rights issue (gay marriage for example) up to a referenda, it's a MINORITY issue, of course they aren't going to win referenda, they're the minority.. that's what government is there for, to make the hard decisions, after weighing all the facts and understanding the consequences.. That's why we choose capable leaders to run the country in our best interest.. Don't get me wrong, I believe democracy is the best system available to us.. just don't kid yourself that the US is that great, or even that democratic (the last 2 presidential elections brought that into serious question, don't believe me let's have a recount.. oh wait you can't, because a Republican party suppoter makes the voting machines but won't allow anyone to verify the code and there's no paper ballots).. please do some research on referenda man.. ones not financed by the US government ideally.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:17 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

John Melnick from High River AB, Canada writes: Remember folks that this is the country that our attaining our Kyoto targets is supposed to set an example for. We lead and they shall follow.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:19 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

thomas ip from Shenzhen, Canada writes: dman T: I may be a clueless idiot but I am not naive.

Do you know how many 'intellectuals.....liberals' were killed in Ohio when they tried to protest against the Vietnam war?

So you think the students got a better deal in the US?

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:23 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

The Loyal Canadian Work Farce from Canada writes: In 25 years the gap between the rich and poor in China will be like the distance between Mars and Pluto. Just ask the leaders of North America's liberal econom....er...liberal democracy.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:24 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada writes: Watson Jones from United States writes

And what was it you had rammed down your throat recently Whatty ?

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:25 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: thomas ip

Let's not forget that nifty little thing called the Cultural Revolution.. where you know 50 Million people were murdered.. for being liberals, and artists and you know being generally educated and realizing a faux communist fascist regime was not in the best interest of the people..

Oh and was it you that brought up the slave trade? I'm not sure but let's not forget who owned the slaves in Africa before they were sold to the Euro's.. The other tribes in Africa.. they have been warring and making slaves of one another for alot longer than we ever did..

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:29 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Jack Smith from vanvouver, Canada writes: There are handful of so-called political criminals in china, Some are of them maybe wrongly charged like those people who are wrongly held because of national security reason in canada, but most of them commited actual crime.

Open your own eyes before you talked about millions as number.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:34 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Jack Smith from vanvouver, Canada writes: Stubborn Ox

You posted so many numbers withour proof at all. Where did you get those wierd numbers? Even most anti-china or anti-china government person cannot imagine about that kind of number.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:35 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: 'but most of them commited actual crime.'

of course they did.. they spoke out about the government.. got together in too big of a group.. worshipped a god other than the party leader etc..

those are all crimes in China.. so technically you are correct...

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:37 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: So many numbers? I don't think I did.. I posted the 50 million killed in the cultural revolution.. other than that I don't believe I even used any..

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:38 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

X. T. from Waterloo, ON, Canada writes: Vickky Angstrom from Calgary:

Where did you get the source again? I do not think China has the capacity to hold 10 million in jails! I see you, like many Canadians and Americans, know absolutely nothing about anything in that part of the world. And I say it again, one of the best ways for these people to start learning geography is waging wars against some remote tinpot countries.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:40 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Eric Li from Calgary, Canada writes: This G&M article is written by someone who can read some Chinese characters but has NO ability to understand the meaning of a Chinese article and definitely does NOT understand the Chinese culture. The '100 years' appeared once in '我們必須堅持黨在社會主義初級階段的基本路線１００年不動搖，堅持改革和創新，使中國特色社會主義永葆蓬勃生機'(We must keep the socialist INITIAL STAGE for at least 100 years). 社會主義初級階段(the initial stage of socialist) was first introduced about 30 years ago by then Chinese Communist General Secretary ZHAO Ziyang. The use of “initial stage” paved a path for both the economic reform and the political reform achieved during the last 30 years. It is true that the Chinese leader does not talk very often about “democracy and political reform” . But the China's No. 3 leader’s paper did emphasise that “we should steady conduct the POLITICAL REFORM and socialist DEMOCRACY CONSTRUCTION at THE SAME TIME when we do economic reform” (我們在進行經濟體制改革的同時，穩步推進政治體制改革，社會主義民主法制建設不斷加強，人民的政治生活日趨活躍，人民在政治、經濟、文化、社會等方面的權利得到了較好維護。)

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:40 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Johnny La Rue from Victoria, BC, Canada writes: And to think people crap on Cuba for being socialist and look the other way when China admits to being the same. If Cuba manufactured western-bound goods (benefitting from workers getting less than a dollar an hour) and have Wal Mart make billions from it they'd be a 'good' socialist, too. Interesting parallel.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:41 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: I realize I shouldn't have posted those deaths as all the 'cultural revolution' but rather deaths attributed to Mao in his quest to set up his ideal marxist state..

People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 40 000 000 [make link]

Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:

Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths

Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M

Great Leap Forward: 20-43M

Cultural Revolution: 2-7M

Labor Camps: 20M

Tibet: 0.6-1.2M

TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M

I just pulled those off a site I googled.. don't have time for academic searches right now but if you have any Google-Fu I'm sure you'll find the approximate numbers.. Historians believe Mao was responsible for 10's of millions of deaths..

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:43 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

X. T. from Waterloo, ON, Canada writes: Eric Li from Calgary:

Don't waste your time. G&M is heavily biased. Just look at today's another article by Omar El Akkad, about raising money for a terrorist, I mean, Uyghur freedom fighter.

I suspect no reporter with G&M is actually literate in Chinese. They just want to make up some horror stories to feed the public.

Posted 27/02/07 at 10:46 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: aw what's wrong.. everytime I stay in a thread and argue the people who seem like they are lying through their teeth just back off and stop posting..

better luck next time guys..

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:06 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Trillian Rand from Canada writes: Premier Wen Jiabao makes some interesting and valid points. For China to advance, it must create a system that allows all citizens to benefit, not just some. This is not political rhetoric, but stark reality. Almost certainly the Premier is using '100 years' figuratively, not literally, because democracy will rise from the bottom before it is imposed from the top, no matter how benevolent the government's intentions. Already large groups in China are actively encouraging democratic reforms. As the economy expands, this encouragement will become more strident.

For another aspect of the Premier's speech, go to the China Daily website: chinadaily.com.cn.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:07 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

mr motoc from Canada writes: All you boys and girls who HATE things like . . . rights . . . freedom . . . due process . . . and the rule of law -- all the favorites of sissy-pants left-wing looney types -- it looks like Communist China is THE country for YOU, for at least 100 years!

You must be so happy. Get on the web; book a one-way flight; you owe it to YOURSELVES.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:12 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

tony leong from Canada writes: well, obviously China has a long way to go with respect to human rights/democracy etc...

anyone that knows anything about the Chinese in general is that stability is very much a state to be desired...so nothing the Government says to that end ought to be surprising...

China is on course, IMO, to gradually loosen the reigns of power, but only under their guidelines and timeframe.

Watching the former USSR dissolve and then implode into the uber-rich and the poor, probably didn't give the Chinese any confidence with regard to a faster timetable a la perestroika

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:26 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

John Silverman from Canada writes: Does this mean the US will attack China? Because we all know that they often attach countries under the premise of trying to bring them democracy. Somehow I think they won't, which just goes to show they don't actually care about that and should stop using that as an excuse.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:28 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Ranald Walton from Hamilton, Canada writes: To the Chinese Dictators: Good luck on that one. It will be difficult for the elite to maintain control when a financial crisis hits sometime in the future. Probably China's biggest problem, and it is far bigger than any problem faced by the US, is its lack of political stability. Money does not like political chaos.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:29 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

david sandford from Canada writes: China seems less like socialism than a bunch of rich thugs milking a country. China's premier is more concerned about his rolls royce...

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:31 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Green Canada from Edmonton, Canada writes: we could have a new saying...Canada will cut GHGs when China becomes a democracy...the timeline is about the same.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:34 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Eric Li from Calgary, Canada writes: mr motoc from Canada: it might be harder for the Canadian Natives to find the differences among us based on WHEN we arrived here than HOW they arrived here.

We are discussing the meaning of a paper and nothing else.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:35 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

X. T. from Waterloo, ON, Canada writes: david sandford from Canada:

For your info, Win Jiabao has no Rolls. All high ranking state officers have to use native products, including their chauffeured vehicles. If you find they are thugs, good luck trying find a word for those in Washington and Ottawa. You may need an Oxford Dictionary.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:40 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

G. A. from Canada writes: It is easy to objectively condemn a statement proclaiming another century of Communist rule in a country with such potential, economic and otherwise. However, it is refreshing to see leaders taking a pragmatic stance to democratization. As we have quickly learned in Iraq and Afghanistan (among countless African and Latin American states), democracy requires the proper infrastructure to flourish, let alone take hold. Democracy, of course, is not simply elections, although much of the world holds the principle as such, quite infallibly. A true, Western embodied 'liberal' democracy requires an independent judiciary, free press, civil liberties, a viable welfare state, free and fair elections, freedom of religion, etc., etc...

If the leaders of China were to proclaim simple 'democracy' in 10 or 20 years - ostensibly meaning elections with some conjured up form of competition - readers might have had a more favourable response. However, when taking the full gamut of democratic ideals into consideration, the prediction of a century is certainly more feasible. We need not see another democratic promise broken any time soon.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:41 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

L Tang from Toronto, Canada writes: Stubborn Ox, I love you last name.

I can not agree more that many people were dead 'unnaturally' during Cultural Revolution ( or Cultural Lost!). The fact is that we don't know the fact.

But I suggest you forget this painful or horrible memory, like most Chinese are doing now. Like why there is baby boom in North America after war? The current Chinese crazy economic boom is in the same situation. The 60's is an unbeatable nightmare to China and her citizens.

But I think the number is not as big as millions, bcz massacre during that period is not heard; also many Chinese learned to shut up to survive quickly when they realize the mouth became dangerous organ.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:42 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Keith Petreman from Ottawa, Canada writes: Watson Jones from United States, I think to have a democracy you have to count all the votes. You can go around all day proclaiming America as a democracy but as long as the media there are controlled by fewer and fewer and as long as the referendums and elections involve systematic fraud and widespread disenfranchisement from the political system, I think it's fair game to question whether or not the US is really still a democracy.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:42 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Y Gong from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: The author of the article has a misunderstanding of the so-called '100 years', which actually counted from the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949. That means democracy is at least 40 more years away. In my opinion, this is a realistic plan.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:47 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Keith Petreman from Ottawa, Canada writes: mr motoc from Canada writes: All you boys and girls who HATE things like . . . rights . . . freedom . . . due process . . . and the rule of law -- all the favorites of sissy-pants left-wing looney types -- it looks like Communist China is THE country for YOU, for at least 100 years!

You must be so happy. Get on the web; book a one-way flight; you owe it to YOURSELVES.

I agree. Just thought it was worth re-stating.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:49 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Tony Baloney from In a cave west of Hamilton, Canada writes: I think it is absolutely wonderful that the ruling class in China is so concerned with improving the lives of the average Chinese rather than maintaining their own grip on power. I personally think they should hold off democracy for 200 years, to doubly ensure that economic progress is established. After all, look how poor the US has done under democracy.

I repeat, the ruling class in China has absolutely no interest in maintaining power for power's sake and is entirely interested only in the altruistic act of improving the lives of the Chinese population.

Posted 27/02/07 at 11:54 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: Tony Baloney

Yeah that's exactly it, they care about the people.. It's not that the wealth is being heavily concentrated in the hands of a few along the coast while hundreds of millions live in poverty and are murdered by the army if they attempt to launch any kind of complaint or protest..

Even in highly controlled China, the west gets the news of the death squads crushing revolts of poor and desperate peasant farmers in small rural villages.. and don't forget the mobile execution platforms they converted buses into, so it's easier to go from town to town executing dissidents.. google it if you dare.. I'm not making it up..

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:01 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Mr Fijne from Calgary, Canada writes: Finally leaders who understand that democracy is flawed: just watch Canada the world's best wallet picking people who love to cripple those who bring wealth to them! In a democracy the lowest common denominator rules and that is why the politicians have to go so low to lure the idiots to vote for them on issues they don't understand! Ahh China, a first class communist country versus Canada a second class socialist one masquerading in conservative gears... Flaherty/Layton... In Canada, 10% are paying 50% of the income tax and thus should have 50% of the voting decision! You wanna have more say in the country? Work hard and smart and you'll create more wealth for all, pay more taxes and have more say! Let's go the Chinese way!

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:06 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

tony leong from Canada writes: oh yes Tony Baloney, of course, the population of the United States was 2, 527, 450 citizens...

try installing a true democracy to a country of over 1 billion people...

as for the motivations of the ruling class in US politics, that is a point that can easily be debated - the belief that any political system is truely altruistic is laughable at best, when administered to be human beings...

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:06 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: L Tang I appreciate your opinion, however perhaps it's the fact that I've grown up in a democracy that I can't have faith in the Chinese system.. I'm not saying democracy is perfect or that we have perfected it.. But the basic fundamentals of democracy, such as free speech, free press, right to assembly, due process, innocent until proven guilty etc. are all incredibly important to me.. I doubt I'll ever be able to fully understand some of these authoritarian regimes.. while I understand that having food is more important to most than voting, I can't support a government that actively murders it's own people.. Muchless stick my head in the sand about the cultural revolution.. Of course people keep their mouths shut and heads down now.. all the free thinkers, the academics, the philosohpers, anyone who was brave enough to be critical of what this system is and it's abuses has already been murdered.. there's no dissent because the last time there was, the government murdered it's own people with tanks and that was on television! The disregard for human life, much less individual liberties is what disgusts me about the Chinese government. While I understand the economics behind the deals we make with them, it makes me sick that we are in fact condoning murder of people who want nothing more than to pray, to speak out, to read free news or to view the internet without having thousands of people monitoring me ready to cut me off or come imprison/kill me depending on what I type.. These discussions on the G&M that I have daily I could never do.. I use these forums to speak of the flaws in my government, about what needs to be done to change it.. While I disagree with many posters on these boards, at least they are able to post their ideas..

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:10 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Stubborn Ox from Calgary, Canada writes: Mr Fijne

please read some philosophy before you ever speak again man..

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:11 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

k. Beachhill from Canada writes: As for Watson Jones, he needs to read a bit of history, especially that of his own country, before he decides what democracy is. Having lived in many countries around the world, I consider myself fortunate to live in the greatest country on earth- CANADA. We may not live up to US standards, including their neo-imperialistic political and military ambitions, but we don't go around preaching one thing and doing another either. What happened to the US policy of 'not trading with the enemy-or communist countries'? Did China present too great an oportunity for US companies to practice their insatiable greed? No, Mr Jones, please let me have my unelected senate and unelected judges until such time that we feel a change in this system is needed. I sincerely hope we never achive anything close to the kind of 'democracy?' you and your fellow brainwashed breathren aprove of. The world could not withstand it.

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:12 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Rebecca Leung from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I agree with G.A.

The Canadian democratic system took 80 years to develop to the stage where its Chinese citizens can vote (1867 - 1947).

Why shouldn't the Chinese take their time too?

I'm a grateful Canadian and not pointing fingers but sometimes things take a long time to be done right.

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:22 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

robert marshall from Scarborough, Canada writes: So what should we move back to a feudal system of government then Mr Fijne and have it where the working classes fate is left in the hands of the wealthy? I don't think so ... the problem is that many of the people that go to the polls don't have the full picture from each of the big issues. What our society needs to be doing is ensuring that people are more aware of all sides of an issue before they make their decision ... that way they have the opportunity to get an understanding of all sides of the story. Unfortunately neither the liberals or the NDP (or any political party) would want these type of voters because then the people would be making better decisions and those might not vote from some of the current clowns in parliament that don't seem to get anything done (i.e. all 3 stooges (Layton, Dion and Harper)). We might even have it where politicians actually get things done instead to spending more time taking shots at the other politicians (hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha).

Have a good day

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:28 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Mr Fijne from Calgary, Canada writes: Stubborn Ox yeah man, dude don't like it when it hits home... dude.

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:29 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Y Gong from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: Joseph Sis say a fairly accurate truth for those people living cities. In deed, human right issue in China is far from satisfactory based on western standard (but definitely not as bad as some of the posts described here). That is part of the reason why it take 100 years to build a democratic society. Just ask how many years it took the Canadian goverment to apologize for HEAD TAX.

It is biased to blame everything on communist government just because it is communist. No other chinese government can improve human rights overnight.

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:30 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Bernard B from Canada writes: Hey, Watson Jones. While I agree with some of your posts, the will of the majority is not necessarily freedom. I find it incredible that honest, hardworking gay coupldes cannot enjoy equal security because the yokels don't like it. I think Marx referred to this as the Tryrany of teh People: Religious Socalism

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:34 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Kevka Y. from London, Canada writes: The Chinese leadership and its shadowy commanders are very smart and increasingly sophisticated...They do indeed think in centuries. It has always been their way. They will do what is right for the Chinese people, at their own pace, and should not have to answer to pressure to aquire other systems they don't find useful at the moment.

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:36 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

X. T. from Waterloo, ON, Canada writes: Stubborn Ox from Calgary:

One should learn from past, not stay in it.

I was born in that Cultural Revolution period. I guarantee I know a whole lot more than your books tell you. One of my ancestors was clubbed to death by those 'land reform' people, who are in fact village thugs. He was a military officer with the communists at that time and dragged back home from battlefield.

What I am saying is, no one is perfect in past. Everyone has own share of atrocities, and in this case Canadians are not innocent either. Mao is a tyrant in many senses, but he is long dead along with much of his legacies.

What is more important, and also the entire purpose for us to look back into history, is looking forward. Much as you love democracy, and for once I was in protests on streets back in 1989, this is not the only or the best system for everyone on every day. It certainly does not happen overnight, especially for a country of 1.3 billion people. What we want to see is that they are moving this way, and I certainly see much improvement over last few years.

Your numbers of 'political prisoners' is nothing but falsity. I admit they do sometimes prosecute people because they spread different ideas - Fa Lun-Gong is one but you really have to know what it is to judge if they are wrong on this.

If you really want to know the real China, your books or those Chinese illiterate G&M reporters don't help too much. Why not go there and have a trip? I guarantee you will have no safety problems - That is if you do not involve in freedom fighting as our latest Canada's favorite Celil did.

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:40 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

X. T. from Waterloo, ON, Canada writes: Oh, just in case you want to see China I have a hotel recommendation for ya:

Grant Hyatt Beijing

It is expensive (duh! it is Hyatt), about $250/night for a standard suite. But if you go inside, you will enjoy the services you can never have in North America. It is about 15 minutes walk from Tian'anmen Square. All things are very pricey even by Canadian standard. They also have a great bakery, very reasonably priced and very high quality. You won't miss Tim Hortons for a long time after that. :-)

Posted 27/02/07 at 12:53 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

The Loyal Canadian Work Farce from Canada writes: Shocking and appalling that Canada's Conservalibs would do business with such an oppressive undemocratic one party economy. But let's see - Prescott Bush did big business with Hitler's Nazis, George Bush Sr. did business with Saddam Hussein and the bin Ladens, ditto Bush Jr. And now Canada is doing a rip-roaring business with those nasty Communist Chinese Shocking and appalling that Canada 's leaders would indulge in appeasement that makes Neville Chamberlain look like a boy scout.

Posted 27/02/07 at 1:02 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

L Tang from Toronto, Canada writes: Stubborn Ox, I really respect you than other yelling-only dude.

What can cure one person may kill another in the same illness, especially how to take the treatment. Try to know more about who you want to help.

Don't agree with the process does not mean veto to the result. Maybe Wen and Hu are in the same feeling.

Anyway, I respect you opinions, or agree with most of them.

Posted 27/02/07 at 1:10 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

L Tang from Toronto, Canada writes: Jeremy F from Alberta, Canada writes: Looks like we have a few chinese spy's in here...

Does not sound like a democratic way...

Posted 27/02/07 at 1:14 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Alfred Dreyfus from Canada writes: After the meltdown in the old Soviet Union, the Chinese are wise to pace themselves when it comes to political reforem. A century is nothing in the big picture, but eternity in a democracy.

Posted 27/02/07 at 1:51 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

J G from Whitby, Canada writes: And soon we will be buying Chinese cars which further them to maintain their ways. .....

DaimlerChrysler AG, seeking to cut costs and boost sales in North America, said Tuesday it will start selling Chinese-made cars in that market and western Europe as it tries to meet demand for smaller, more economical vehicles.

The world's fifth-largest automaker said its supervisory board approved the framework of a limited partnership that will see China's Chery Motor Co. build the cars in China.

They will be sold in North America and western Europe under the aegis of its Chrysler Group brands, which include Dodge and Jeep. Financial details were not released.

I have a Dodge Magnum and I will not buy Chrysler again!

Posted 27/02/07 at 1:55 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

r b from calgary, Canada writes: I normally do not comment on issues of purely foreign interest - my concern is first and foremost protection of North American economies and lifestyles: translation - I really don't give a damn about China's lack, or accomplishment of, democracy. I don't care when, or if it is achieved, I care far more about the behavior of whatever Chinese regime happens to be in power is with respect to the outrages of ongoing patent infringement and intellectual property theft by China. However a posting by a Josepf Sis requires rebuttal. As with many Canadians who are posted in foreign lands, this fellow came back all starry-eyed to tell us how much better 'they' do things in 'such and such' land. Perhaps. Having lived through a decade plus of Kleiny numbskullitude in AB, even I sometimes wistfully yearn for an intelligent hand at the wheel. But I recall that some of my family had the experience of living in a nation that experienced a miraculous recovery from devasatation. Within 3 years of the ascension of a new government, people were fed, industry was humming, the trains ran on time. The National Socialists were quite efficient if nothing else. Now settle down, I am not directly comparing 1930's Germany to the China of today: China appears to be a relatively benign dictatorship (perhaps a bit heavy handed on the capital punishment issue, but the Chinese posters on these boards don't seem to mind). But in general, dictatorships are more efficient. Just pray that you are not a born dissenter. Then of course there is the sticky issue of why there continues to be those 'teeming masses yearning to breathe free'. Your Chinese friends who ' laugh and think we are clueless' (your words) may want to ponder that. Myself, I will take the chaos of North American imperfect democracy to semi-benign dictatorship any time. Game on.

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:06 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

CPT America from United States writes: Just remember morally superior Canadians, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones!

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:07 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Scott Anderson from Windsor, Canada writes: Wow! Hear that sucken sound of Global destabilization? Well at least a good 40 to 60 years anyways. But I think China will see civil war and unrest first.

Same thing that needs to happen in the Middle East a major civil war so the Muslims can take back the faith from the hijackers in their society. It's time a culture and people who have been handed modern technology move the forward 500 years to an even playing field as the most of the world.

Why not let the exploitation of Democracies continue as Russia has done to the west for technology and money only to plan a re closing of the curtain by the great dictator Putin probably by 2012.

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:34 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

CPT America from United States writes: Okay I am no Chinese rocket scientist but this one takes the cake. 'The Canadian democratic system took 80 years to develop to the stage where its Chinese citizens can vote (1867 - 1947).' Since when are (were)foreign citizens allowed to vote?

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:12 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Bond Shearing from Calgary, writes: A 100 years before any possibility of democracy, hardly something to bragg about. At least not in our lifetime.

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:39 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Tor Sandberg from Toronto, Canada writes: No democracy in China for another 100 years!? Where is the American economic embargo like the one imposed on Cuba? I deeply wish Conservatives could see the hypocrisies in all their actions.

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:20 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

gulu Ng from Canada writes: Try the chinese airline (anyone of them). you will never fly with AC, or UA, or whatever again.

Posted 27/02/07 at 2:46 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

david sandford from Canada writes: X. T. from Waterloo, ON,X. T.

I guess thugs is a universal term then. thanks for the info.

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:05 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: XT & Eric Li: you are right. The majority of the people on this board are clueless and don't understand Chinese, even though they say they lived there etc etc. You have to change your entire mindset to understand the subtle nuances of Chinese word meanings and train of thought. I know this for a fact, that I had to be able to change my mindset to think in Chinese or English to understand the subtle nuances. Most westerners are clueless about this simple fact.

It is however, groundbreaking, for a senior leader of the party to now mention a time frame and the context to moving to a democratic form of government. Another clueless western thinking point is time frame. 100 years is but a drop in the bucket in China's 5000 year history. The chinese concept of time is very different than the west. The westerner mind cannot see pass their noses.

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:08 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: CPT: the reference is to Canadian citizens of chinese extraction.

The west has discriminate against Asians heavily. The racial politics practiced by the west against Asians were truly disgusting. Asians had to endure various forms of indignities around the world as they achieve success. Yet, Asians, in most cases turned the other cheek and with dignity moved forward. Westerners should be ashame of themselves for their attitudes and practices.

The various western based societies have raped and plunder various resources around the world the last several centuries. These societies have had the greatest harmful impact on this planet compared to any other society.

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:17 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

Ranald Walton from Hamilton, Canada writes: It is mindboggling to read posters here apologizing for the Chinese political elite, while living under the protection of Canada. The posters would have a little more credibility if they walked the talk (ie lived in China). Personally I like freedom of speech and democracy, and thankfully our forefathers (and foremothers?) were willing to kill and die to defend those rights. Besides, political stability is necessary before capitalism works. The corpses of the contemporary Chinese leadership will be hanging from lamposts by piano wire, during the next depression.

Posted 27/02/07 at 3:28 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

William Berry from Winston Salem, United States writes: The Western mind CAN see past its nose, a Chinese Communist leader saying Democracy is 100 years away means that for 100 more years the Chinese people will continue to live in a totalitarian state, very similar to slavery, while the Western economies continue to go into a nose dive due to a very warped Trade imbalance versus the Chinese. Western (including Canada) democracies will continue to see their manufacturing jobs go to the People's (HA!) Republic of China, where people either work for pennies for government-owned companies, or go to "re-education camps." It means that a near dictatorship will continue to use its army and national police to impose the will of the elite upon the masses, down to the level of a person's right to think! Look at the "Made In _" tags on the goods you buy, especially in low cost consumer goods, appliances, furniture and clothing, and you will note that a VERY high percentage of them say "CHINA." World War III has turned into a TRADE WAR and CHINA is WINNING!

以前说从资本主义到共产主义有一个过渡阶段，叫“社会主义”

但中国现状是封建主义到资本主义这段路还没走完，所以把这个“社会主义”叫初级，实际就是补资本主义这个课。这是经典马克思历史唯物主义，不是借口。毛的《新民主主义论》也是这么说的。