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主题:【讨论转载】在成都老外(?)的报导 -- 颜子

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家园 【讨论转载】在成都老外(?)的报导

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/index.php?name=MDForum&file=viewtopic&p=865292#865292

This has been my first opportunity to get online since the Earthquake hit yesterday. All is fine with my family, but this event has really shaken up my wife, who briefly hid under the table of our condo with my new-born son, then ran out the building, down the street to fetch my older son Nathaniel at the Kindergarten; finally, wisely fleeing by taxi to a suburban area where grandma and grandpa live.

At the time, I was in Guanghan, at the Civil Aviation University, 40 km north of Chengdu and closer to the epicenter. It was a surreal and terrifying experience. I've been in a tornado and felt the helplessness when pitted against mother nature. But, you can hide from a tornado down in a basement.

There is really no escaping an Earthquake. I was just about to begin class on the 4th floor when we felt a shockwave rumble the building. We thought maybe a plane crashed or there was an explosion nearby. But then the building heaved. As we hustled down the hallways and down the stairs, the sensation was the same one you get when you take off in an airplane; with that sudden weightlessness and then the dip of the plane. Cement was flying and so was glass. Very fortunately, the building did not crumble down upon us. I can still envision one extremely hard hit and I thought the end was coming. The building rumbled so loud, it seemed to be coming down. In that instant, I spied the window of the 3rd floor staircase and made my plan. Then the rumble slowed. Everyone made it out safely.

All in all, we were extremely lucky.

More than 12,000 people, at last count and rising quickly, have died in the villages and towns Northwest of Chengdu. I have seen the destruction and in some cases it is complete destruction. Homes, hotels, hospitals, schools and apartment buildings have crumbled with people in them.

News is still trickling in and we still haven't seen the worst of it yet. Of this, I am sure because I have been up in those hills in Aba many, many times and I know that the construction up there could not withstand the hit we took in Guanghan; and we were 50km from the epicenter.

The country is helping as best it can. The Army is up there already and the local businesses in Chengdu have already started supplying aid. The Chinese people really pull together when these things happen. That is something one can see quite evidently.

Calm has pretty much been restored to Chengdu now and people have for the most part, made their way back to their homes. Some holdouts are still taking shelter where they can outside.

But now the problem is the rain. If you can picture a mountainside road, barely two lanes across and just enough to squeeze through a couple vehicles either way in the best of times. And then picture half the mountain tumbling down across it and burying it for hundreds of meters and about 15-20 feet high; then you can picture the monumental task facing emergency crews to get to the hard hit areas. You can only fit one excavator at a time on that narrow roadbelt, to start digging through the debris and there are dozens of huge rock-slides like that all the way up the winding road to Wenchuan, Aba from DuJiangYan.

Airlift is the best way to get in right now. The death toll in Chengdu has climbed from early low reports of 45 people, to now over 1,000. Mianyang; Sichuan's number 2 city has lost over 7,000; Deyang over 2,000. There are reports of an entire village just North of Wenchuan having diappeared. And no one has heard from the Panda base at Wolong yet. There are 130 Pandas out there and more in the wild. Let's hope they faired well.

I pity the crews out there working in this heavy rain tonight. The human toll; let alone the emotional toll on the aid workers and victims will certainly be staggering.

Today, I have returned home to my place inside Chengdu's 1st Ring Road. Most shops are open today for business. Even my Suzuki dealership was open today and lucky for that because my radiator was pooched. There is some panic-buying going on of staple goods (especially bottled water) and most of the chain stores and supermarket shelves are becoming bare in the "drinkables" sections. Traffic is snarled outside the 2nd Ring Road as those people who slept in their cars for the past 2 nights are now returning to their homes.

Whether rumor-mongering or not; the locals believe that throughout history, disease breaks out after a natural disaster of this magnitude. People fear for the safety of the water and for the unidentified strains of bacteria and/or viruses that may spread from such a disaster. I think that is a reasonable reaction and that some basic precautions should be taken by the people in the area.

An open feeling of grief and sadness is in the air. Normally happy-go-lucky Sichuanese have truly felt the weight of the human toll in the countryside nearby the city. Many Chengdu people send their kids to countryside schools, especially in the hard-hit city of DuJiangYan; a popular weekend getaway town for city dwellers due to its natural beauty and mountain scenery. Indeed it is one of Sichuan's 5 UNESCO World Natural Heritage designated sites; three of which were hit hard by the quake; including the Natural Panda Habitat and the country's number one tourist draw; Jiuzai Valley.

Many foreigners in Chengdu, as well as from within the rest of China and other countries have offered to assist in the rescue and aid effort. Even with my relatively inside connections in the area; having been involved in aid projects in Mao Xian county, just a few kilometres north of the epicenter; it is not feasible to allow foreign aid workers in on the ground at this time. The security situation, as we all know, must be controlled. China places a heavy emphasis on protecting foreign visitors; and yes, some may feel it is rather restrictive in nature; but that's the way it is. Local officials do not want to be held responsible for the safety of a group of foreigners in their area. For the Chinese, that is a heavy responsibility, believe it or not. Special preparations would have to be made to accommodate any foreign relief effort and because time is of the essence, it is best to let the Chinese get on with the task at hand.

They have indeed been quick to the scene. Given the terrain and the topography of the area; a faster response is all conjecture and hindsight. When there is an emergency; one huge advantage China has is man-power. And the rescue effort has thrown alot of man-power into the situation. That is why the best way for foreigners and foreign countries to assist is in monetary or hard-goods contributions. Once the area has been stabilized, there will be plenty of aid and relief opportunities for foreigners and foreign aid groups. There always has been in those relatively poor regions of Western Sichuan.

So, let's be patient and not be insulted or take offense. Chinese people do appreciate assistance given by foreigners. Of that, and from my 10 years of experience in this region, I have no doubt.

Anyone with a plan or requiring advice as to the best way they may contribute once the dust has settled, may feel free to contact me by PM. For now, I suggest donations to the major charities, such as the Red Cross.

我要重点提一下,他第二个帖子后半部解释为何外援是不合适的:他的主要观点就是中国政府现在要集中精力救人,没有办法再分出精力来照顾“外援”。我看后觉得分析很有道理。

成都应该也有很多老外吧,希望他们能够以比较客观的态度把事实说出去。

关键词(Tags): #汶川地震(喜欢)

本帖一共被 2 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
家园 稍微浏览了一下那个帖子

shanghaiexpats的态度还算很好:

Reports now indicate that the death toll will surpass 10,000. Obviously at magnitude 7.8 in a heavily populated area where most structures have little seismic resistance, there will be a heavy loss of life.

At this point I, and I'm sure many other foreigners who have chosen to live our lives in China are wondering what we can do to help. Give blood, donate blankets, supplies etc.? Could someone suggest what numbers to call, what websites to visit, etc.? Someone said the China Red Cross site was down.

We expats love to complain about our little problems in China but a major catastrophe like this surely transcends all of that, and as people who have made our homes in this country, I strongly feel we have a moral duty to do our part here.

So, how about it? Who has some good information?

Thanks so much to SXD for the updates from there.

On the "what to do" front... blood donated!

Here's a picture of a picture of some of us at the blood donation today mentioned earlier by yu888. There were 4 of us donating blood today.

It was clean, the process was swift and efficient, and they gave some goodies to eat, plus a prize bag including crackers, milk, and (in mine) an electric rechargable razor! I traded it in for a hand-powered flashlight/torch shaped like a pig, and a magnetically levatating pen.

There are more chances soon to donate blood (listed above by littlefox), so you've got no excuses.

家园

嗯,转了

家园
家园 专业搜救人员和旅游者不一样,他们不需要照顾

诚然,外国游客是不应该让他们去救人的。中国对他们的安全或多或少要付一些责任。但如果是职业搜救人员,他们参与之前对于可能的危险应该是有心理估计的,中国并不需要,也没有可能担保他们的安全。他们不需要照顾,理解危险,他们只需要翻译和适当的指挥。

而一些被埋在废墟下,但是依然存活的人,他们的生命往往不是简单的工具就可以迅速救活的。头两天,自己人都很难进去,各种车辆,机械也很难进入现场。自然可以组织外国人进入,但现在,到都江堰,德阳这些地方的道路起码通畅了吧。专业搜救人员的工具和经验都是可以借重的地方。至于语言,在成都,重庆,从大学生和导游中征集志愿者,真的有那么的难吗?

我可以理解,中国的开放是一步一步来的。从76年的不要国际救援,封锁伤亡消息,到现在的接受财物援助,公开伤亡消息。不过我觉得再向前迈一步,未尝不是件好事。我相信一定有很多地方因为道路或者其他条件的影响,不适合接受外国人员的。但我绝不相信,那么大的灾区,真的已经没有外国救援人员可以插手的地方了。

家园 衣食住行,不需要照顾吗?

关键是要确定,外国救援队,是不是就一定比中国的水平高?除了日本,其他发达国家,似乎很少遭受地震袭击,他们在抢救震灾方面的水平到底有多高?这个我不清楚,请对这方面有了解的河友指教。

而且抢救废墟下的人,很多时候再先进的设备都是没有用的,就得靠人手,才能防止误伤,我不认为这种时候国外救援队比我们的军队能做得更好。个人认为医疗队倒是比救援队更实用些。

家园 专业灾难拯救部队也有分等级的。

专业的灾难拯救队有一套的认证程序,动员技术等有分等级。记得几个月前联合早报就报道了新加坡民防部队的灾难拯救队获得了认证,表示随时可以24小时动员派员到世界任何角落从事最危险的拯救工作,好像世界只有几个国家得到了认可,忘了有哪几个国家了。大意如此。所以不必担心专业队伍的安全,他们自己会注意,只是协调、沟通方面可能会面对问题。他们的经验,技术,器材等却是可以派上用场的。

一般上,灾难发生国家也只是分派灾难现场的一个部分给外来的一支或几只拯救队伍,让他们协助分担负担,可以的话,协调、沟通方面的问题可以减到最少的。在道路已开通的城市应该可以开放接受外来拯救队伍的帮忙。有专业部队的协助,拯救效果会更好,加快,中国也能学习到国外的经验。

家园 衣食住行在灾难面前不需要像平时对待旅游者一样的照顾

战士吃什么,灾民能吃什么,他们就只能吃什么,做不到这一点的,就不需要来了。

至于专业程度,我不认为他们就一定比中国的专业队伍强,实际上,中国地震局现场应急救援队伍早就奔赴灾区了。但是中国这样的专业救援队伍毕竟有限,杯水车薪。现场在救援的,更多的是军队,甚至是灾民在自救。他们都没有经过专业的灾难救援训练。专业的外国救援人员,至少比他们要强吧。

头两天,很多地方道路不通,专业器材很难上去,没话讲。但现在是该让专业队伍出手的时候了,废墟下面起码还埋了几万人,早一点,快一点救出一个人,就意味着更多的人能被救出来。

至于您说废墟下面有的时候只能用人手,我相信,但我绝不相信所有地方都是如此。专业的搜救人员,同样有专业的救援器材,很多时候比人手的效果要好。前两天看到一个报道,说是在用钢钎砸水泥板,救人,这样的场合,我不信没有专业工具比钢钎要强

家园 完全是这样的,我觉得头两天道路不通

不应该让外国救援人员进入,但起码可以把他们集中到成都。等待现在道路打通,就可以立刻进入。

家园 说明一下

1976年的中国,愿意接受外国援助,只有一个条件,一切通过红十字会。

但这是很多外国机构不同意的,他们要亲自发放。请参考现在的缅甸,他们自己雇人,在小范围,发放更白的米,更多的米,更快得发放。所以,即使你喜欢他们的方式,也只能在交通空闲的时候,才放他们进来,否则的话自己的米就运不动了。

至于

专业搜救人员和旅游者不一样,他们不需要照顾

也很容易理解,如果他们不需要照顾,那他们需要自己解决交通、水源、食宿、防疫、治安、防暴等问题,那1人工作,10人后勤的局面,是避免不了的。

家园 国外救援队肯定有好东西,绝大部分人心也是好的

问题是你怎么和他们沟通?不是把他们往那里一扔就能救人了,这类救援是需要和当地人紧密配合的。不能有效沟通那是两眼一抹黑,纯粹添乱。

家园 不是那么说的,

就算多几条搜救狗,也能多救出不少被埋的人。

沟通问题也没想象的那么难。你现在把人集中到成都。然后问问他们救灾中常用的词句,制作点语言翻译卡片就可以了。英语有可能是这些救援队的通用语言。如果是这样的话,沟通问题就更容易解决了。

家园 紧急的话从成都重庆的大学生和导游中征集志愿者

时间宽限一些可以从全国征集,翻译不是问题。

家园 1976年的事情谢谢您的解释

不过我说的救援人员,不是您说的这种散发财物的人,是从废墟底下救人的人。

至于一人工作,10人后勤的局面,如果他们是如此,不知道国内的专业救援队伍凭什么就不是如此。在我看来,国外的队伍除了需要翻译,其他的和国内的专业队伍需要的是一样的。而在四川乡下,说不定国内的专业队伍也需要一定程度的翻译。

我想强调的根本不是外国救援队伍,而是专业救援队伍,不分国内国外,我看到的消息,中国地震局的专业救援队伍早就上去了,但凭那几百人还是杯水车薪,震区主力靠的还是没有经过任何训练的解放军,志愿者,甚至是灾民。而随着时间的推移,救人的希望会越来越小,这个时候该是争分夺秒抢人的时候了。专业的队伍,我相信他们一定会抢的快一些。

家园 时间是个大问题,只有72小时
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