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主题：【原创】Ivy plus MIT, CalTech undergraduates -- 虎王2006
家园 【原创】Ivy plus MIT, CalTech undergraduates -- 有补充 全美常青藤+MIT、caltech几个学校每年十几万招生
(938+4530+6755+6092+5422+6996+6245+4459+7160+15043+10019)/4=18415
Ivy Plus CalTech Plus MIT
California Institute of Technology is a private institution that was founded in 1891.
It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 938
It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 4,530,
--- Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Harvard University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,755,
Yale University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,092,
Princeton University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 5,422,
Stanford University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,996,
Columbia University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,245,
Dartmouth College is a private institution that was founded in 1769.
It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 4,459,
Brown University is a private institution that was founded in 1764.
It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 7,160,
Cornell University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 15,043,
University of Pennsylvania has a total undergraduate enrollment of 10,019,
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the so called 一年三万多美元奖学金 is actually need based and targeting students from poor families --
which is very rare in Ivy level undergraduates.
And for 在美国上名校更容易了。全美常青藤+MIT、caltech几个学校每年十几万招生, this is mathmatically wrong.
Caltech the entire undergraduate program has less than one thousand students,
and for each year all departments and majors add together is 200+.
The other HYPSM five "big Ivy" each school each year about 2000ish.
So where can this 每年十几万招生 come from?
The competition of Ivy is most fierce especially for undergraduates.
And the students of poor family background are usually no match for the more affluent ones.
Again, only the very poor are eligible for the so called 一年三万多美元奖学金
for the very top schools there are top five
HYPSM (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT)
the next tier very closely following
CalTech, Chicago, the rest of the Ivy --
Columbia, Dartmouth, Cornell, U Penn, Brown
and then the colleges that are "Ivy level" --
Duke, Rice, Vanderbilt, etc.
Grand total about 20 some colleges, and its not going to be close to 100K students.
the so called scholarships are all need base, no exception.
Another thing -- need based is for US citizens only.
For Chinese undergraduates its big business and a vital revenue source for these schools.
Graduate students are a very different matter
公校: UCB, UCLA, UM, UVA, 教堂山
还有就是工科牛校: 方平母校, 普渡, UIUC等
These are very good deals for in-state students with very reasonable tuition
(usually heavily subsidized by state government for residents of that state)
Out of state tuition is not cheap.
Again, merit based scholarships are very rare even for these schools
if someone grow up in USA, and being very poor, the chances of being admitted
is quite low compare to kids of affluent middle and above social classes.
in recent years many top schools are doing window dressing by lowering
academic standards in order to admit more of the poor family kids.
-- you may get tuition covered by need based financial aid, but first you need to be admitted.
楼主贫困县长大，非上海人能上同济，而且能保持专业前5，这个水平，如果生在米国，肯定是全奖的水平，不用自己掏钱上学，
this is a valid point. students like this will probably be admitted by
top schools and then most certainly receive need based financial aid.
if you were us citizen while applying undergraduate, with the kind of
academics credentials, and low family income level, a full- ride is
most likely for most flagship state colleges, and full tuition waive from an Ivy.
the point is that this benefit for the low income students does not
apply to overseas applicants of undergraduate schools.
And it should not be, because this is an education benefit
as part of social benefits for the US citizens.
Same idea, the Chinese state universities waiving the
tuition cost for many years, it is a social benefit for Chinese citizen.
去哈佛读本科其实经济上更赚，一年三万多美元奖学金，只要考个托福就行。
关键是小门小户的不知道有这个路子。而进了大学，同学都要出国读博，
所以人人知道这个路子。我们小地方的更不知道这些。
For now this is no longer true. It could be possible in earlier years
as these are very rare cases, and the so-called scholarship are actually
need based financial aid usually reserved for US citizens only.
在美国上名校更容易了。
that is completely not true.
通宝推：武仙,作者 对本帖的 补充(2)家园 【原创】MIT each year admission numbers How many students does MIT accept each year?
General
First-year applications 20,075
First-year admits 1,457
Percentage admitted 7.3%
(keep in mind the admits number is not the same as enrollment, enrollment number is always smaller)
the total enrollment number of each school refers to all FOUR years (freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior), and assuming each year enrollment stays about the same, this number should be divided by 4 to show yearly number.
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in original post I have included Ivy schools and MIT, Caltech as our friend mentioned which schools to be counted. For some reason I added Stanford to this crowd, so my number 18415 should deduct 1749 to fit exactly.
The number under discussion is 16666.
four times of this number is 66660, that is very closer to our friend's number, but unfortunately, that is for all FOUR years' of undergraduate students of these schools. if our friend change the argument from
全美常青藤+MIT、caltech几个学校每年十几万招生,
to this
全美常青藤+MIT、caltech几个学校4年十几万招生, well it will get much closer,
or
全美常青藤+MIT、caltech几个学校4年6.8万招生, it will almost be correct.
每年 vs 4年
家园 【整理】more clarification 有官方来源的，藤校一年招生七万左右（没记错六万八），加上和藤校水平相当的几个学校，十来万大差不差。谁不信翻回去看链接。
the reliable number as the following:
California Institute of Technology total undergraduate enrollment of 938
Massachusetts Institute of Technology has a total undergraduate enrollment of 4,530,
Harvard University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,755,
Yale University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,092,
Princeton University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 5,422,
Stanford University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,996,
Columbia University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,245,
Dartmouth College is a private institution that was founded in 1769.
It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 4,459,
Brown University is a private institution that was founded in 1764.
It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 7,160,
Cornell University has a total undergraduate enrollment of 15,043,
University of Pennsylvania has a total undergraduate enrollment of 10,019
total enrollment means ALL four grades of undergraduates TOTAL enrollments.
Each grade is roughly 1/4 of this total number.
How many students does MIT accept each year?
First-year admits 1,457
the number enrolled is going to be smaller than 1457, which is definitely far from the TOTAL ENROLLMENT of 4,530
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i am very disappointed that even in this forum, many people are not able to understand a very simple number, after being shown positive evidence again and again. this is not rocket science, it's simple and straight numbers.
our esteemed friend not only failed to understand that his numbers are simply flawed, but double down on his misunderstanding, and further more, call it out 冷静一下，吵架输了不丢人，别为了赢不要基本逻辑了 -- well, i am waiting for a fair acknowledgement of what is correct and what is not correct.
It is not my intention to force anyone to admit they were wrong, but i do see some value in people seeing simple facts and honestly acknowledging it -- there are many occasions that your impressions of things are just not exactly right.
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The original argument is to debate whether students applying for top colleges in USA has a easy ride, with admissions and scholarships from top schools easily obtained.
From first hand experience and the grilling college application process that my child not so long ago experienced, I can responsibly say NO, IT IS NOT EASY. My familiarity with college admission and enrollment numbers are from this experience -- you need to know how big of a chance your kid could have, reaching his/her dream college, and adjust your applications accordingly.
Further more, overseas Chinese especially Chinese Americans are currently struggling particularly on education front -- our kids are positively discriminated against especially in college admission process. So please excuse my being a bit combative on this topic -- when you see people overlook/misunderstood some important simple numbers and make false assumptions.
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you might believe that your kid with a straight A record from the entire high school period, almost perfect GPA, full scores of SAT/ACT, could guarantee a placement in IVY? Not necessarily if you are ASIAN, even with this kind of pristine academic record you might be missing out even the "minor" IVY.
A few factors at play here: first of all the total opportunity is very limited as each of the top schools yearly admission/enrollment numbers are clearly much smaller than many of the friends here in mind. Secondly, a few of the categories are almost ear marked for interest groups that usually excludes our kids
-- Legacy admission
-- athletes
-- first generation/minority (yes, we Asians are not considered a minority that counts)
Only a very small portion of a small pie for you
见前补充 4644051 见前补充 4643811 家园 冷静一下，吵架输了不丢人，别为了赢不要基本逻辑了 说说你第一行除以4理由是啥？要不咱一起查查英语字典enrollment 是啥意思？我白天上班时不时看英语文献就够烦了，半夜被窝看老同志你吵架贴都还是英语......我之前已经给你贴过了，有官方来源的，藤校一年招生七万左右（没记错六万八），加上和藤校水平相当的几个学校，十来万大差不差。谁不信翻回去看链接。实在太困，后面看不下去，再睡会去。
家园 adding Chicago and Duke 另外，好的大学招生是不容易的，比如最顶尖的Caltech, 全校本科生才四千多（这几年不知扩招没）
全校本科生
caltech
938
HYPSM (Stanford and MIT technically not IVY, but considered as "big IVY")
4530-6996
rest of IVY
4459-15043
即使美国优秀孩子，考上理想中的大学也不是那么容易的。exactly
And these two are considered IVY equivalent:
全校本科生
Chicago 6734
Duke 6649
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many friends takes it for granted that the top universities in USA cannot be THAT selective, and even thought about CalTech undergraduate total enrollment of 4000ish as being exceptionally low -- well, the exact number is 938. And the 4000-6000 number is the norm of total undergraduate enrollment of "big Ivy".
Cornell is known or considered to be slightly easier to get in, the number 15043 could be the reason.
Appreciated many well intentioned discussions. And each of us might keep within ourselves a rough impression of certain numbers and certain things. The ball park numbers could simple be not correct, even if we are well intentioned and our opinions are not very far off from each other.
家园 有人就是听风就是雨，还以此为据信誓旦旦的评论他人 没办法，被骗还以为手握真理。
比如，国内居然有教授说美国普通军人月入3万刀，你怎么跟他说事实、分析、解释都没用。什么玩意儿。
所以，我才说 欲走还留 的是否确定。
他讲的东西，总感觉是怪怪的。他总觉得自己听到、看到的就是事实，自己理解的就是真理，没法跟他玩。